5. Jodi Moreno: Carving your own way in and outside the kitchen
Jodi Moreno is a chef, culinary consultant, food stylist, James Beard nominated cookbook author, and one of the warmest people I've had the pleasure to work with. Her cookbook, More with Less, is the only cookbook I've both admired aesthetically and used religiously when wanting to cook something a bit special (yet still simple) in the kitchen. Her client list includes brands such as Krug Champagne, MasterCard, Peroni, and West Elm, while her recipes and work have been featured by Bon Appétit, Vogue, Saveur, and The Washington Post, just to name a few.
Today, we chat about wearing so many different hats as a creative, the ins and outs of creating your own cookbook, building Neighborhood Studio, and how the move to Mexico City has inspired her in both food and life.
MORE JODI:
Jodi's Instagram: instagram.com/whatscookingoodlooking_/
MORE CREATIVE JUICY:
Michelle’s Instagram: instagram.com/mich_wainwright/
Say hello to Michelle: creativejuicypodcast@gmail.com
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Jodi:
Thanks for having me.
Michelle:
You're my first guest that I'm having since officially launching. But thank you and it's just nice to see you and catch up. So I think I mean weren't we supposed to get lunch at or breakfast at Pastis like right before lockdown?
Jodi:
Yeah, and then I left and never came back. Haha.
Michelle:
I want to talk about all of that. How I've just been starting off with everyone is, can you please introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about.
Jodi:
My name is Jodi Moreno. I am a culinary consultant. I also do quite a bit of food styling, and am a cookbook author as well.
Michelle:
I feel like you do so many different things in the food and culinary industry. I'm surprised you called yourself a consultant first. Um, that is a new development.
Jodi:
I know I think that it's so funny because I mean sometimes I Also you know I also am in roles as a chef and I think culinary consultant for me was a way to kind of sum up like Chef. Um, food Styling. You know some of the events I do and things like that and just kind of like roll it all into one title because it's so hard when you do so many different things to describe what you do? Um, yeah, especially for me and as a consultant like I think you know I work with a lot of. Different um brands and people and things. So um, yeah I feel like that sums it up really well because I'm usually doing consulting projects like I don't you know it's just. Some are longer term some are shorter some are just you know one off things. But yeah I Guess that's the best way to lump it all together. Yeah.
Michelle:
Package it all up. So can you tell me a little bit about your journey in the culinary industry in general like how it started and then evolved over time.
Jodi:
Sure, um, well I think it started as most people's do in that industry which is like a love for food. Um I always always love to Cook. Um, and then I also kind of had this. You know when I went to college I went to art school. You know I studied. Um I studied fine arts and so um, you know when I got out of college and I was working more in that area and photography and advertising I was cooking a lot at home on the weekends and just realize that. Cooking was also quite artistic and um, you know I also had this background in photography and and so a few years out of college I decided to go to culinary school. Um, not knowing if I would end up doing it full time but it was during. Culinary school that I started a blog because that's when blogs were like you know, kind of like new and cool. Yeah I think there were only there weren't that many out at that time because I think it was around twenty ten or eleven there were just a few of the big ones like smitten kitchen and. Um, trying to think of yeah but I was really inspired by them. So I was like oh you know I Love to cook and I Love to take Photos. You know this is probably a good um, a good Match. So I started my blog and um. And then when I finished culinary school. You know I already had some things going on there and I didn't know if I was going to quit my full-time job but I started getting offers from um, you know just to do recipes and things like that for other websites and stuff like that they were offering money and I was like oh. Like maybe I can do this, you know, maybe this is a path in this field that I can take and so about a year after culinary school I quit my full time job and started just going after it.
Michelle:
You were working full time while also going to culinary school?
Jodi:
Yes, so I did a nights and weekends program. I don't think it exists anymore. It was a natural gourmet dish. I think that they were bought by somebody recently. But um, yeah, so I did this it was maybe just shy of a year um like nights and weekend programs and. It was just a cool way to kind of transition and to learn if I you know if I liked being in the kitchen in a more professional way and it turned out I loved it and um, you know just couldn't figure out I knew I wanted to do something a little bit more artistic.And not just so much like you know working as a sous chef in a kitchen or something a little more traditional So I feel quite lucky that that field kind of opened up right around the same time that I finished and it was still so new then you know it's still look back and it's amazing to me that it just kind of.
Michelle:
I Know yeah I feel like just the world of I don't know if it's social media but just I mean people caring about a pretty photo and how to share it and how to create content and then.
Jodi:
You know, it happened the way that it did.
Michelle:
Just capturing your daily life. What you're eating I don't know. I feel like it all contributes to how the culinary industry has evolved over time.
Jodi:
Exactly I mean it's crazy because when I first started there was no Instagram Um, so when you posted a blog post you would tweet about it because that was like the main social media platform and one of the only big ones you know. And so it's been really cool to see how Instagram has changed everything. Um, oh that's right? Yeah, pinterest is one of the yeah it was probably Twitter pinterest and then Instagram came along and then that just kind of took over everything.
Michelle:
Did you study photography in school?
Jodi:
I studied photography. Um and then photography with advertising like as you know, like a kind of graphic design advertising that was more to appease my parents who. Who were like I mean I would have gone for like painting or something a little more but they were like yeah know if you're we'd like you to like have you know, maybe a more I think they were just in their mind like a more traditional you know path to a career. But yeah I study photography and also that's changed a lot too. I mean maybe I'm dating myself but it wasn't even digital photography. It was a dark room and a film which was very cool and then it was right out of school that everything turned completely digital.
Michelle:
Ah, yeah. Well I remember when I met you in your old apartment because we were shooting cocktail photography. Um for Clicwuoy Rich and I remember thinking how great it was because you could really do everything like you could. And this was before we even liked creating recipes or anything together but you could style a cocktail and shoot the cocktail you're just kind of like a 1 ne-stop shop creative engineer for the shoot and that is so useful for brands to not have to work with a million different people and just go to one. So.
Michelle:
Um, I mean I Guess how did you first start getting work like that.
Jodi:
I think it was mostly you know the blog and then Instagram kind of acted as a portfolio and um I put a lot of time and effort into my photos not knowing that I was kind of creating this portfolio along the way and that my skills. All those different skills would end up being really valuable together so it just kind of like it started from I don't want to say it was I mean it was kind of a half a hobby but half also something I was just trying to um, figure out. But yeah, it was just that it was like practicing over and over again and also if you look at my first photos I don't. Don't know if they're still on the blog but they're terrible. You know it's like some of them are just really close up like the lighting that you know and it was just you know I just kept practicing and like getting inspired by other people's work and photography and trying to like practice.
Michelle:
I'm sure they're not terrible.
Jodi:
Like mimicking certain styles and and then I have started doing workshops and and and yeah, and then I think it was just getting work just came from yeah, all the all the work that I was creating just. Kind of just for myself at the time but um.
Michelle:
Yeah, and I'm sure your advertising job really gave you a lot of just client relationship skills on how to manage the business.
Jodi:
Yes, yes, exactly I had to in the role that I had I was like yeah you had to have a lot of like management skills but like also patience and yeah, just dealing with a lot of different personalities and.Um, I think that's been that's been really important for me I think in my career is like you know how you treat your clients and you know so because you want to keep getting business from that and I think that's a really important thing.
Michelle:
Especially when you're wearing so many hats I feel like you know if you're the if you're creating the recipe and styling it and shooting it. You know that's lots of different rounds of feedback specific to different parts of the shoot. Um.
Jodi:
exactly well, it's interesting like I sort of backed off. I realized that it was actually quite hard sometimes to do so many roles.
Michelle:
How do you deal with all of it? How do you manage it?
Jodi:
Like you said, there is a lot of different feedback for different Things. So I think then I started pitching myself for more you know specifics like I. So I kind of dropped the photography a little bit because I realized that styling was my. Really my thing is if someone wanted to hire me for a larger professional photography shoot you know I was kind of shooting with very controlled natural light. You know with what I was comfortable with so um, so that kind of made it a little bit easier I think um, even though I'll still. Still do photographs. It's just more like it's if it's in my space with you know my kind of environment. Um, yeah, so that was one thing that was 1 thing that that helped but um, but yeah I think it's also just um, having patience and also understanding.
Jodi:
But the client really wants and if what you do isn't exactly what they envisioned you know to maybe also always just be willing to like work to get it right? I Think that's a really important thing too.
Michelle:
Yeah I want to talk. I don't want to mess up your timeline but I would love to talk about neighborhood studios. Um I Guess can you share a little bit about the impetus for starting that and can you describe.
What it is for people listening.
Jodi:
Sure, um, so neighborhood studio was um, like a kitchen studio that I had for 3 years in Brooklyn with my partner hetie mckin and it actually came about because I had. Always had this idea of having this place where I could work and maybe do events and maybe collaborate with other people. I mean as you know I was working a lot from home or only from home as you came over and worked with me. But so I was like I was getting to a place where I wanted. Like something a little more professional but I also had all these ideas of like fun stuff I wanted to do and then I met Hetty right? when she moved to New York from Australia and we had lunch together and we totally hit it off and it was funny because like we started talking about this idea and she had the same exact idea. Idea in her mind so we decided to kind of partner up and start looking for spaces and I think within I think it was under a year we found something hetty found something. Maybe it was even on Craigslist. It was crazy. We looked. We looked at a bunch of different things and they just didn't fit and we found this one space and it just was perfect because it had. You know this one side that we knew could be the kitchen and then the more active side and then this other side that was dining room but also where we did a lot of photo shoots and um, that too was funny like we kind of started that the same way I started my blog like not knowing what it would turn into and and it ended up being. You know it's funny because like we didn't even advertise it. We had on Instagram but it wasn't like it had thousands of followers. But I mean we were getting so many requests for different things like people to rent it, people to hire us people to do events so it just kind of took on a buynd of its own and. Um, we were able to still, you know, do a lot of the events that we wanted to do and use it creatively for personal work and I think had he shot a cookbook or 2 there I would have worked on a lot of cookbooks and other types of photo shoots. We did a lot of shoots there. Um, so it was just this cool like you know place where you can know where we could create all these and all these different ways I can do the 2 things I would also develop like do a lot of my recipe development clients there and like restaurant clients. So I would do tastings there and um. Yeah, it was really it was fun and then sadly well not maybe it wasn't so sad the leastase ended the month before Covid and yeah, we didn't even we didn't foresee Covid being you know this huge thing and we but we just were like okay well maybe this has seen its time and we can.
Michelle:
Oh My God. Of course.
Jodi:
Do something else and then yeah and so it kind of worked out. Well it was like the perfect timing. Yeah at that moment. But I miss it sometimes, yeah.
Michelle:
Wow that timing. I remember I remember going into it. Yeah I remember visiting it for the first time and it was so beautiful. Did you design? I mean you guys built the kitchen I'm assuming. Okay so you built out the entire space.
Jodi:
Ah, ah, and yeah, so we built the kitchen. Yeah, we built the kitchen. The landlord was really lenient with us with that. He said we can kind of do whatever we want. Um, you know it had these really cool amazing brick walls and we actually whitewash them. Because they were kind of this harsh break. So that made them really kind of photogenic. Um, and then yeah, the lighting there was great. We're on the second floor so we had this kind of dappled lighting but the kitchen was really fun to design. We worked with an architect who was a friend and um. We also got a lot of it sponsored which was really great. Um, almost the whole thing. So um, so yeah I was like this fun collaborative project because even the sponsors like we kitchen aid sponsor it and think we did some things for them like some you know, fun stuff for them. Like a trade. Um, so yeah, that's how that came about but no, ah yeah, you would have.
Michelle:
I don't think I ever met hetty no I think I would have remembered but it's funny because I feel like so many Australians in New York City work in food.
Jodi:
Yes, yeah I have never been to Australia but I can imagine I mean from what I know from heady and my other friends and that I think there's just such a big emphasis in their culture on food and so maybe that's it. But
Michelle:
There definitely is. I'm my dad's from Australia so I actually have Australian citizenship. My whole side of the family is there? Um, yeah, we used to go all the time growing up. It's been my longest leg. I was talking to my cousin the other day. I haven't been since her wedding in 2013 which is crazy. But I think I've been 10 times in my life. We would just always go visiting family. So um, it always felt like a mix between Europe and America in a certain way like something about it feels very European cafe cultures. Really big coffee culture. Um, and yet it's not totally European. Part of it feels like a little bit injected with I don't know American suburbia if you will. Um, but the food is probably 1 of the best parts about Australia even though it's hard to pick and I find that people are always surprised when I say that because I don't think it's necessarily known to be. I don't know a culinary capital if you will um I feel like the popularity of avocado toast and things like that have maybe changed things because when I was in Amsterdam with my uncle because my mom's Dutch. He was taking me to brunch. And he chose an Australian place in the middle of Amsterdam and I thought that was so funny. He said yeah, it's new and I just feel like Australian food has become much more of a thing of late. Um, but like every Australian I know in New York City they have a coffee shop.
Jodi:
Um, well yes yeah I know actually I forgot about that because here it's not so there isn't that same culture but New York the australian cafe model kind of took over but I loved it because like. That's how I like to eat. I feel like the food there if I know what I would imagine as it's not that it's crazy, creative or like a hive fine dining thing. It's just like very good simple everyday food with good ingredients. Very clean. Um, yeah.
Michelle:
Exactly and also really interesting asian influences just because it's so close to Asia and there's such a big population there. There's really interesting fusion combinations of things you wouldn't expect and.
Jodi:
Um, ah I know now that we're talking about Im like I need to go. Ah.
Michelle:
Yeah, I have to go. Um, so did you shoot your cookbook in the neighborhood studio.
Jodi:
No, the saddest thing was I shooted in my apartment in February which was quite difficult because it's like the shortest amount of light we did natural light and literally I think we were just wrapping up the shoot and hetty told me like I think we you know I found this a place. Um.So I know I would have made my life a lot easier to have all that open space to do it. But um, it was great because like I had a lot of events there for the book because by the time the book was launched. It actually worked out just as well. But no, I always envisioned them doing a book there but I needed to. I needed a break after the cookbook for a minute. Um, it was technically my second I did a um, actually consulted and kind of wrote 50% of another book.
Michelle:
Yeah, um, so your cookbook more with less was this your first cookbook.
Jodi:
Called Grains as means um, which is all about ah you know Again grains. Um, and so that was kind of just like practice for me and and so it wasn't really like it wasn't my cookbook necessarily and then yeah I did more with less and then. Um, yeah I kind of need to write cookbooks. It's a lot I'm sure if you know anyone else who's done it. It's yeah everyone kind of has the same feedback.
Michelle:
Honestly I don't think I don't really know many people who have done their own cookbooks. Personally I mean maybe a few but you're always the first that comes to mind because I love more with less.
Michelle:
A lot of times I feel like cookbooks are really intimidating. Um like there's either. The recipes are long or ingredients. You can't find long cooking times or even just I mean the page just has too much on it that I just don't feel like I can make. Whatever is on the page and more with less I mean why don't you Why don't you talk about it? Can you describe the perspective?
Jodi:
Yeah,, that's exactly that's exactly was my that was exactly my thinking when I um started you know when I started thinking about writing a book I wanted I wanted to create a book that was. Was very you know, simple and approachable because as someone who loves a cook and was collecting cookbooks and um and really loved kind of a more um you know like the Chef authors and things like that. But I would read the recipes and I would know I know that. This would be good for a restaurant but it's not good for a home cook and so I wanted to come up with something that still felt, you know, maybe creative and interesting. Um, but simplify it and not have a lot of extra steps or ingredients. Um, so that was. That was where all that was the original concept so it makes me Happy. A lot of people tell me that because that's exactly what I wanted people to feel when they looked at it was that it was, you know, Approachable Um, easy to use. But that. You know, maybe you got something out of it like something you know to make something different that you wouldn't make you know in your everyday repers wise so in that it's on. It's so good and so easy.
Michelle:
Yeah, it's me I mean the cucumber avocado Gazpacho is I think my favorite thing ever. Yeah, so easy and such a good thing whenever you have friends over for dinner. It feels so special and unique and.
Jodi:
Ah, ah, ah, exactly that's what I wanted, like something special , unique, but not, you know, not difficult. Yeah, and.
Michelle:
Yeah, so okay, you have the idea for more with less. What is the next step like where do you go? Do you have to get a book deal? I mean what is the process like?
Jodi:
Of Why it's yeah I mean it's it's It's quite a process I ended up. Um I mean my doors opened a little bit easier in the beginning because you know because I had all this stuff on the internet. It was. People were finding me and and you know asking me if I wanted to work with agents or um, my blog got nominated for best blog like server blog awards so that like you know messages started pouring in my inbox like from agents and. Things like that. So I actually had the chance to interview agents to choose an agent I wanted to work with and then once you and I would highly recommend IT. Mean if anyone's even thinking of doing a cookbook to always have an agent because they're just kind of your advocate, your middleman. That's just really.
Michelle:
Yeah, so an agent in this book world. It's specifically someone to represent you in essentially doing everything you need to do for the book.
Jodi:
Um, yes, yeah, So basically the agent starts working with the agent before you have a publisher um I developed a proposal with my agent. My agent would kind of you know. Give me advice on what you know if I needed to add or take away things and then once we had a really solid proposal she then because they have contacts in the publishing World. So then they kind of send it out to all their publishers who they think would be Interested. Start setting up meetings for you and then if all goes really well you might even have a bid more um you know where they're pitching you. There're not only just there. You know what they're going to pay you to do the book but also just. You know the perks of working with them and like their kind of catalog of other titles and things like that. So. It's kind of fun. You know because for me yeah for me, it wasn't the money since it was my first book. The money wasn't as important. I mean they were all kind of similar. But instead of going with the highest number I felt like I wanted something someone who was a really good fit creatively. Um, and so yeah, that was my top priority regardless of any of the other stuff. So um, and yeah I'm. I'm glad with the choice that I made because yeah they ended up doing a beautiful book I was able to have a lot of say creatively and yeah, and then I got Nominated made for a Jane Speed road which is like a dream come true. Oh yeah.
Michelle:
Yeah, amazing that was that in 2018?
Jodi:
Yeah I think it was 2018 no I was so the book came out in 2018 the awards were 2019 yeah Yeah yeah, that was the best. Yeah, that was the best news of all.
Michelle:
Congratulations that must have been so incredible. Yeah, so I guess in terms of Creative freedom when you do have a publisher and I'm sure it's different per situation but how much control do you have and how much control do they have like to the point where I mean you're an artist.
Jodi:
Culinary career for sure. It was very exciting and.
Michelle:
Yourself like could they pick a photo that could their photo pick Trump yours for example, okay.
Jodi:
Yeah, definitely I mean that's typically how it works I guess I can't speak for all publishers. But um, they kind of have the last say, some will allow you to have a little more of a discussion about it or they'll or they might even ask you? You know if you have a choice between 2 which one. Um, but things that are really important like the cover and stuff like that tend to have a lot of input. Um, but again if you go and some from just hearing other people's experiences some won't even let you choose what you are. They'll just say this is what's going to sell the book. This is what works for Us. You have to do this. I knew the publisher I was this would be a little bit more collaborative. So um, even though they might be okay we want to work within these you know parameters. They still let me do um, like kind of have a little more creative freedom. Um, so yeah, that's it's that's I think that's the hard thing about publishing especially cookbooks because they can be quite personal and um and yeah, you have you put a lot of creativity into it and they're more looking to just sell the book. So you might have just like really cool, funky things you want to do. Do with it and they usually would like to keep it a little bit more traditional. Um.
Michelle:
Yeah, right I think it's interesting . I mean I feel like this can be applied to different fields and situations. I listen to a lot of founder podcasts and. 1 of the pieces of feedback that founders always say is if you are looking to get investors make sure that you interview them because you want to work with people who share your same vision and align with your overall goals because. You don't want to basically I don't know handcuff yourself to someone who doesn't have the same perspective or some commonalities with you and I feel like it's the same in what you just described because I feel like it's so easy as the creator of something like a publishing house. Or deal or an agent I mean those sound like such fancy, amazing big deal things that people are probably very quick to just be like yep you got it sign sealed delivered like where's the dotted line but it's really important to to be mindful of who you're getting into bed with for lack of a better phrase.
Jodi:
I couldn't agree more. I feel like anyone who asks advice about you know, just starting in the cookbook publishing like I think that's probably my biggest piece of advice. Um, and it's hard. It's tricky because I think it's hard to find. Just the perfect fit because you're basically hiring a predetermined team of people right? So um, you know there could be like 1 of those team members that you know, but it's like any job that I guess you take but you do have to kind of look at it like taking a job I mean the process you end up working with. But for a good solid 2 years sometimes more sometimes less. But yeah, it's like taking it's like taking a job and so you kind of want to interview them and not only that it's different than taking a job because they're taking your you know it's like your project your heart your soul that you've poured into it. So. And it's really important that you pick people that you want to work with that's why it's like the money isn't always shouldn't You shouldn't just always choose by the money I think yeah, all those little factors are um.
Michelle:
Gray so you did it, you wrote it shot. It obviously created the right you did every single thing.
Jodi:
Yeah, everything I mean I ended up having a photographer so I was gonna shoot it. They actually hired me to shoot it but I realized doing all these different roles was just too much for me so I ended up meeting this girl Chloe who. Wonderful. Um, yeah, so she yeah so she ended up she slowly started shooting some of the things because I was like okay maybe I'll still do half of it or something and then we just sort of cranking things out and I had another girl. Sappho who did um she was kind of doing both recipe testing and cooking the food for the shoots. Um, and so it just ended up just like working really well like that little team that we had. And that was it yeah and then I did everything else it was' a lot of it's a lot of work. There were a lot of 5 am nights like editing and things like that where you're just kind of like hoofing. But um.
Michelle:
I'm sure and then what happens when once the book is out I mean is there a whole press tour I mean what does that look like.
Jodi:
Yeah, yeah I think it's so funny. I think since Covid I don't know what it looks like now but before things are getting back to normal I felt bad for a lot of my friends who are putting out cookbooks during that time. But um, you yeah so basically. The book comes out and you just start knowing how to do all these things to promote it. You kind of go from this role of being creative and you're very isolated at that time and like working a lot alone at your computer to all of a sudden you're out there like promoting your book. You know you're doing like. Podcasts who might even have like Tv birds and this and this and that and like speaking engagements and yeah for me, it was quite overwhelming like I was just I wasn't used to being in that role for so long. Um, but there are things that give me really fun like connecting with. You know, readers or um and things like that. That's probably the best part of that. Um, but yeah, yeah, and then none and of.
Michelle:
Yeah, it must be so cool. So you mentioned you had oh go ahead. You mentioned that you had friends who are coming out with cookbooks in covid. I guess what I mean is that it's pretty cool to have friends who do the same thing you do. What was the sense of community or how did you find community in this world in this industry in New York? Or maybe it wasn't even specific to New York I don't know.
Jodi:
Yeah I mean I think you know social media blogging Instagram all those things like makes the world really small and so you connect with you can connect with people from all over I would say that most of the friends that I made in New York in that industry were all because of. Um, mostly through social media or like you know because your social media you get invited to something you meet somebody. So I think right before I left and even still now I mean I still talk to a lot of my friends there who do the same thing. Yeah, you feel that you have this bond and this. Connection immediately if you've ever done a cookbook because it's just such an intense process and I have friends with cookbooks that are everything from like chefs that have their own restaurants in New York to um to people like me and then there's even some people who like had and really no experience in food that were just. Had a good idea and like a list of recipes and we're able to get cookbooks too. But um, yeah, everyone's like everyone I know had a slightly different path to getting there. It wasn't like 1 formula that um yeah, it was it was.It's quite interesting. But um I miss it though I'm like I'm mitching I mean I'm kind of also working on something but I'm ah yeah I'm I'm missing it a little bit right now.
Michelle:
Yeah, so you okay so covid happens and then were you visiting Mexico City or how I mean how did this move come about.
Jodi:
Yeah, this is where everything kind of like takes a crazy turn and like you know the studio the studio I knew the studio was wrapping up so at the beginning of Twenty Twenty well um right before 202029 the end of 2019 I had take in 2 trips to Mexico 1 to wahaca 1 to yucatan um, that were kind of um I don't know if you would call them like influencer trips they were but they were these were like sort of very interesting ones like they were focused around the foods in Mexico. Um. People that were primarily invited to them were less influential. There were more chefs or people really working in the food industry to kind of promote the culture and food of Mexico and so on, after the second event. The second event was with a lot of really well-known chefs. Was organized by Renee Renzze Ppi and um I'm not even short like I feel very lucky that I got invited to that because it was just it was a very it was probably one of the most inspiring trips that actually kind of changed my life a little bit because I started looking at Mexico and being like wow this is something. Feel a really strong connection to this place to the food to the chefs that I'm meeting here and and then I started building this. You know my world was kind of changing from like this. Um you know the more like cookbook world New York to like meeting these chefs and then I was like well. I miss being in the kitchen more you know, maybe once the studio's done I'll go get a starge which is ah which is what you call a chef's internship for a couple months in a kitchen and see if I want to kind of start shifting. So. And at the beginning of 2020 I took a trip to Europe, visited a bunch of these chefs and restaurants and started kind of trying to see if I could get a job somewhere like I was looking into Michelin starred restaurants like completely changing everything. So I originally was offered a Job in Spain that's at its san sebastian um, covid started shutting. Yeah covid started kind of slowly shutting things down there so they couldn't get me a visa so that that kind of blew up and then the day that I was supposed to. The day that I found out that they wouldn't like they weren't gonna take me for that job. Um I was flying to Miami and as I was landing my friends were like hey I met Frances Mullman today and yeah, and I told him that you were looking for a job and he wants to meet with you. Yeah and the story gets you crazy I hope following because it's like theres old. You know so and this is now February so I was like okay so I met with Frances who's. Most wonderful man is just as you would imagine if you'd ever seen. Chef's table, he's exactly like that. In person we had a great conversation and he offered me a job to travel with his team. So now. But now we're getting to the end of February Twenty Twenty and yeah so then I go to Mexico and I had another thing there in mohaca. Um, and this is the first week of March now. And I had you know was kind of like ready to go to um Argentina was going to be my first stop and so had like my bag packed and ready to go and and just covid started just shutting things down and so he's kind of like oh can you just stay in Mexico City for a little bit and. You know I kind of thought about going back to New York but things were that was where it was peaking in New York and I was like well it doesn't make sense and I'm already kind of here. Why don't I just stay a couple weeks and see um so then like two weeks then two months became like six seven months and then. After about six months I mean after a few months I was like wow this city's really beautiful and I was just cooking like crazy and writing all these recipes and kind of semi working on another book because I just was like what else am I gonna do right now I'm alone in the city where like. You know it's shut down but I also don't even know anybody So it's not like I was even I wasn't just doing anything besides cooking. So um, so yeah I just kind of I just ended up staying and falling in love with it and then deciding to. Get a place here because all of my stuff in New York the apartment like everything was just um, you know we had given it all up mostly because of covid. So um, yeah, and I mean it's crazy how I ended up here but it feels very serendipitous and um. And I've been very inspired since I've been here but it's just it. Yeah, my career changed a lot like with this move and and the things that I've been doing and I'm a little sad I never got to go you know have my. Yeah, with Francis and my dream job I mean we've stayed in touch and stuff like that. But it's just never it never kind of went back to that for him. So um, but still it kind of took me on another path in a weird way like unintentionally um.
Michelle:
Yeah, how cool it is that it's amazing. Um, well, that's an incredible story I had no idea about. Um, if anyone is listening and they don't know who front Frances Malman is Ah, Jody can you just describe a little bit about who he is and why he's so well known.
Jodi:
Yeah, he's such I think he really I think in certain you know if you're in the if you're in the food world or if you know about food in Argentina you know if you're from Argentina especially um. Fracis is well Frances had this episode on chef's table I think he was the first episode that they had and anyone who didn't know him who watched that episode myself included I mean I had his cookbooks but I didn't know him like who he was as a person you watched that episode and you're just like wow this. Guy is just fascinating and romantic and just has this beautiful view on life and just about like spending time in nature cooking over fire like I mean I think I've watched that episode like 30 times at least just because it's you know. Because you're like I want to live my life like this or like this is just so magical. Um, yeah, he's known for yeah, he's known for exactly and actually especially when I was just there people explained to me like it's not like Francis's techniques they are very like.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, because he buries his food right.
Jodi:
Techniques that he uses with fire and like cooking in the ground I have been around for forever. There's a lot of similar stuff here in Mexico too. Um, but but yeah frances really romanticizes it and he's also I consider him and I think this is where we really connected is he's like he's also like a Stylus like a visionary you know he has you know his events are just very theatrical and beautiful and you know there's fire and there's meats hanging and there's pineapples and there you know it's just a lot of things going on but it's it's like raw but it's it's well thought out and yeah, he's just. Ah, for me it was kind of the ultimate. But yeah, he has and he has a number of restaurants all over like in Argentina in France to um Miami. Yeah yeah.
Michelle:
Um, yeah I first was or knew of him and wasn't introduced personally but he worked with krug champagne which was of course 1 of my clients and doing these things big.
Jodi:
Um, ah yes aha Aha who aha.
Michelle:
Dinner experiences. Um, and you're right, very sensory like the fire, the cooking in the ground, the whole thing. Um and he did something for us. I believe it was in France and I wasn't there physically in person. But that's how I was first introduced to who he was. Because of course we had to shoot the event and promote it and get press and whatnot and then only after that did I see the Chef's table episode and realized who he is in such a bigger way. But I can only imagine getting that text from your friend when you're landing in Miami that must have been such a moment.
Jodi:
It was so crazy, especially because it was that morning I found out about that child. But I was so disappointed I mean again that ended up being a bit of a disappointment but um I mean it still keeps me kind of like going and inspired just knowing like. You know I had this possibility and I'm like well you know there's things out there like you know like I never it's funny too because one of my friends. 1 of my friends who was a chef said to me, he's like Jody. Why are you going to try to work in these Michelin starred restaurants? He's like you should go find someone and work with fire. He's like why don't you go work with why don't you go find like Francis Mullman and go work with him I was like that's that sounds great but like how is that even going to happen and literally that like when my friend text me that I was like I couldn't yeah things were just happening in those moments for me and I Mean not to be a little like woo or cheesy but like I I feel like I had a very clear vision in my head of what I was looking for and like I mean I'm not like I'm not like a big like oh I'm gonna manifest mate but it kind of did happen in that way because I was just like this is what I want to do I Want to make this happen and. So I think there is something to all that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michelle:
Definitely I mean there has to be that's so cool. So how would you compare the food scene in Mexico City to I mean I guess how would you describe it in general first. But then how would you compare it to New York
Jodi:
Um, ah, it's so there's a lot There's there. Can there be a lot of similarities between um, the food scene here in Mexico school Mexico City um and New York in that you know it's important here like everyone here is very into like dining out in the restaurants and trying new things. Um I think the biggest difference here is that I mean you're in Mexico so there's a very um. Big cultural elements whereas you know New York is more of this melting pot here because if you're in a cosmopolitan city you still will get a lot of different types of cuisines. But I mean the more traditional Mexican food is dominant here and the thing.
Jodi:
What I love about Mexico City the most is that you have this mix of like high low and I don't necessarily mean high low like I mean for example, you can have like 1 of the best tacos of your life. That's twenty Pesos or a dollar you know on the side of the road. Um, you know and then you can have this amazing fine dining meal within walking distance from each other. It's just this. Um, it's just this cool place where a lot of different things exist and for me I've just become enamored with Mexican food because it's there. So much to learn and there's so many different things and different regions cuisines recipes like it just blows my mind. How rich and deep the food is. Um, the food culture is here. So I mean that's probably the biggest difference is that in New York it's just you know it's just. It's very diverse. There's a lot going on and sometimes I miss New York because there's more like new things going on often. It's kind of like it's a faster pace there than here. But it's kind of nice here because it's a little more. I mean the city is gigantic but like we're a lot of um. Things are really happening and opening. It's quite small and manageable. So I think it makes it a little more. You know you don't have to wait a month for a reservation here and things like that make it a little bit more. Yeah, it's not so stressful like it's just you know? Um, yeah, it's quite nice, but.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, sounds nice. How inspiring.
Jodi:
Yeah I love it here and the only other thing that I really when I first got here that I really loved was just all the markets and the vegetables here. You know it's really really fun to go to markets here because um, it's just a whole other world. And something that was very new to me and very inspiring.
Michelle:
So did you enjoy cooking as you were growing up like were your parents surprised when you chose this route or did it always kind of make sense because I mean I know we didn't start with that at the beginning but you mentioned cooking.
Jodi:
Um, yeah I um I was always well I think like I said like I loved to eat and my grandmother and my mother were both 100% italian um were cooking all the time I mean.
Michelle:
In college, I'm just curious if this was something that was interesting to you when you were younger.
Jodi:
My grandmother came from Italy. She had this huge backyard that just had all these vegetables. She always liked making handmade pasta. Yeah I always joke and say that like my grandmother I thought that all grandmothers just like did that like you know, woke up and cooked all day and.She would dry pasta in the basement like on the on the washer machine you know and I just thought like Grandma's just cooked all day and like you know like when I was really young I that was just what I thought a grandma did and so um and she would just make so much food for every you know, like too much food all the time. And I was I would just like to watch her and and but she never let me out. She was always like to get out of the kitchen like you know they weren't really, they weren't like the you know jump in and participate teach you. It's like very kind of like no I'm the you know the italian. Moment that house and um, but it's funny then when I told them I wanted to go to culinary school. My mom was like what you're going to pay to learn how to cook like we teach you how to cook like you learn from watching us and you don't need to go to school like everyone was very confused as to why it was. But also for them like my grandfather was ah um, had a bakery in Brooklyn. Um, yeah, and they kind of looked at it as like for them. It wasn't you know it's not like is this oh cool, you know like. Like nowadays I like to have a big room and can be like them. It was more just like um like just a way to get by. It's a skill that he had that he could use and apply and um I think they like envisioning something else for me even though you know I think obviously now. They're all like oh yeah, that makes perfect sense to you because you were just surrounded by it. But yeah I didn't really start cooking until college and I was not great then took a lot of practice. yeah yeah I was yeah I was born in queens and yeah, my parents met in Williamsburg and yeah, and yeah, so but I grew up in Connecticut. Yeah, mostly I was in Connecticut.
Michelle:
Oh that's so cool I didn't realize Okay, um so how I mean you spoke about it a little bit but how would you say I mean. The way you describe Mexico City and your experience being there sounds completely inspiring. Have you noticed a real shift in your perspective with food since the move? Um or I guess how has it really influenced your work?
Jodi:
Welcoming completely because completely I mean I think before I got here I mean also it was a combination of of coming to Mexico and covid because before that I mean also the trends in New York and what people were asking me to create a lot or you know it was a lot about like special diets and clean eating and and all these things and and I'm grateful for that because I learned a lot about like you know what's good for you and like and why but. I feel like there was a moment where there were just so many rules and so many things and it's like gluten's bad and this is bad now and this and you know and it just I think when covid happened and I got here those 2 things I kind of was like I just want to enjoy my food like. I Just want to enjoy a bowl of pasta when I want to and um, you know I want to eat street tacos and I want to you know, try all these different things that are here and and so I just was like I don't want I don't want any more food rules. You know I was like I know what? what makes me feel good. I Know maybe you might not but like otherwise like I don't want to I Just want to. I Just want to eat and be happy you know and so and that here too is like there's no culture here like no one asks for you. Don't see gluten fan a menu this or that and like not to like you know I think.
Jodi:
Um, very much like I respect anyone's dietary choices and um and I have a lot of friends who are vegan and vegetarian here actually which is interesting because there's a lot of meat here. Um, but just for me personally I was like I just wanted to be free of. Of some of that and yeah, like I said it just is not a thing here. It's much more about just food. It's happiness. It's family. It's togetherness here like it's just and I loved that and I loved having that shift in my perspective because I almost felt healthier I think. You know, just having this more free view on food and enjoying you know? Um, so yeah, that was a big change. Yeah.
Michelle:
That's really cool because it's like a healthy mindset is a healthy diet.
Jodi:
Yeah, that's exactly what I learned. It's kind of like I tried so many different things trying to think I'm gonna reach the perfect pinnacle of Health maybe or I don't know what it was I was trying to seek you know? Um, but yeah I feel just if not more. Healthier just by having that freedom and just enjoying getting so excited about you know, certain things especially from here because I just love the food here. I think that's a very healthy way to be. You know.
Michelle:
Yeah. Have you ever eaten in a restaurant? I guess it's kind of Borham Hill, maybe it's Gunis Claro in Brooklyn.
Jodi:
Wow! Yeah so TJ was actually on both of those trips with me. He's the chef owner there he was on the one in mohali and the one in Yucatan and yeah, so we became like buddies during that and.You know it's funny though I haven't eaten as rests I know they're amazing though and and I just kind of left I left too quickly before I could go there but I love teaching his food I'm sure his food is incredible.
Michelle:
Okay, so I have always wanted to go. Yeah I had been watching it. It's when you're describing Mexico City I mean I just ate there. Um, my boyfriend took me there for my birthday last weekend on Sunday. So. I went there for the first time and as you're describing Mexico City and just the culture I just don't know. That's the best representation of what I'm envisioning. It could be like and so that's so well that TJ was on those trips with you.
Jodi:
Yeah I think he does actually yeah I think yeah I think he from what I know about the food mexican food and in New York I would say he's definitely top like 1 of the top places to experience like yeah.
Michelle:
Are there any must go to places in Mexico City for anyone visiting or going soon?
Jodi:
Oh my gosh. There's so many I should probably post a ah list somewhere. But um I mean I think you can divide it into maybe 3 or 4 different categories you know because you like your street tacos. You know for me that I Really like like ah Los Cocos downtown is a very classic , very popular um like kind of street Taco experience. Um, then I think breakfast is a big thing here. Um, having a traditional Mexican breakfast is like a muscle. And there's a place called Fonda Margarita that is like some of the best food I think you can have here. Um, then there's kind of like your like newer hip or like wine bar kind of places or um, you know I have a couple friends doing like I have. Um, one of my friends has this restaurant called maccon and they do singaporean food because she's from sing. They're a couple. She's from Singapore and he's from Mexico and they are open to yeah and it's incredible. My friend Tyler who's from he's actually from the states I think he. Your girl, I opened up a Thai restaurant here. That's just open like Sunday Saturday Sunday Monday but it is like some of the best thai food I've ever had like outside of Thailand. Yeah, so there's really cool stuff like that going on here too. Um.
Michelle:
Wow.
Jodi:
There's another restaurant called Hugo that's right down the street for me. That's like a wine bar with really really good small plates and then there's like your fine dining. You know you have pujol and quitonilil which are like if you are into finding dining. They're kind of a must but um, yeah. There's like such a cover like the range but there's so many places it's so hard to recommend you know? yeah.
Michelle:
So we. Yeah, yeah, you brought up trends which is something I wanted to ask you about. But maybe I mean it sounds amazing that you're kind of free of it in Mexico City but I feel like trends in food. It's a very quick cycle I mean. I don't. I don't even feel like I could speak to it properly but are you seeing anything currently that's having a moment if you will or anything you predict to kind of have a spotlight on in the future because I feel like these things are constantly like.
Jodi:
Um, I know I know right? It's interesting I mean I guess if we're talking about the internet like it's funny I kind of yeah I kind of like feel like I. Wanted to distance myself a little bit from that because of it was such a quick cycle and felt like very you know there's not a lot of like depth to these trends. Um I mean I guess there's some things that stick around. I Actually like that and I think that this was more covid for people because me personally it was covid. There was kind of a more I felt like a little bit more of an embracing of comfort foods and not being so scared of them and like things like pastass and stuff which I think for a moment everyone was like oh no like I can only um, but yeah I think that's. That's also maybe you know me like projecting a little bit of how I've changed. You know, just wanting to embrace those types of things but it's interesting. There's not a lot of like there's you don't see like it's not very trendy here. It's a lot more traditional. The only trendy thing I would have to say is in the dining culture here is that it's um, this culture of pop-ups is very big here in Mexico City I don't know if in New York it is but it's quite cool like um, every week. There's something new you know. Someone's either collaborating at another restaurant or like someone's doing something cool in like this raw space and I've actually been doing a lot of that myself and um I yeah I've noticed that it's just it's actually quite easy to do it because people are kind of looking for them now whereas I think maybe. Before you try to do it and it's like just you know you have to either have a really big audience or something like that to pull it off but that's one of my favorite dining trends. That's what's happening at least here. Yeah yeah.
Michelle:
Yeah, sounds nice. Okay, so Jody I have 5 final questions which I have been asking everyone some of the things we may have touched upon but I'm gonna ask them nonetheless. So. Question number 1 What drives you to create and why do you do it? what? you do.
Jodi:
Ah, so it drives me to create. I think it's taken me a long time even though it's creativity has been ever since I was young like I was always like painting and drawing, but I didn't really embrace it. Or understand that my creativity was basically who I am like you know until maybe I was, yeah, a little bit older and started combining the food and the photography. But I think that's it like I can't imagine not creating. You know I think when I do so. When I've stopped for periods of time and kind of got caught up in other things or just life or I miss it and I know the second I go back to it like I feel more just like myself I feel more grounded and Centered. So I think now knowing that that's probably my biggest driver. Creating. It's like I like creating just not for work like just for myself because it's just yeah, it's who I am it makes me feel very grounded.
Michelle:
Question number 2 this one fills in the blank feeling inspired feels like.
Jodi:
Walking on clouds.
Michelle:
Um, question number 3 Where do you go physically and mentally digitally to get your creative juices flowing and how do you overcome creative blocks?
Jodi:
Um, I think I was gonna say actually like the second I got where um felt about covid a lot but like but during covid like I would take these like 2 to 3 hour long walks and I'd like bring a notebook with me and like just to kind of break up my day. And I realized like and I'd and I'd like to listen to music and walking here is quite magical because it's very tropical like there's so much green and so I would just like to walk down these really green streets and green parks and like I would just feel so. I don't know if my mind just started clearing and then I felt like I could be really inspired. So I think that first that would be more the way to clear my mind and then you know I would go to a market or something and pick up maybe some vegetables I hadn't seen and. Um, and maybe just create something small just to create it. You know, not for anything else I think that's probably the best way for me.
Michelle:
Yeah I feel the exact same way about walking. I really started . In New York you walk everywhere but it's because you're getting. You're going somewhere. It's not just walking for yourself and. In covid I was in Texas for a while but I would just take long walks in the morning before work and then maybe at lunch and then maybe after work just to get out because there's obviously nothing else going on and then when I got back to New York I just continued the walking which is so much more fun here just because there's more to look at. But. I Feel like that's when my mind like you said totally clears and that's when I come up with ideas like this podcast or things about my personal life, things about work I just feel like I can think Clearly because I'm not. I don't know it's a weird thing walking. It's just being in motion. I feel like it's my therapy in a lot of ways. Um.
Jodi:
Um, for sure it was definitely I felt exactly the same. Yeah.
Michelle:
Yeah, question number 4 if you could tell your younger self 1 thing or 1 piece of advice. What would you say?
Jodi:
It's all gonna work out. I know it depends on how much younger I know in my twenties I was like I just thought like how you know like what am I gonna do like I was always so trying to find a career like. You know that I really wanted and I just was like so in Agony over it all the time that I think it's amazing to see how everything just worked out like I always knew I always was pretty focused like i Wasn't like I was all over the place but I just was like never knew how I was going to get there and I'd feel really frustrated. Um, so I think and I'd have some people being like just keep just keep going and like just keep like little by little and you'll get there and it's true like I mean some of my wildest dreams have come true and. I would have never been at 24 if you would have told me that I would have been like no never gonna get there.
Michelle:
Ah, um, well, that's good advice. Um question number 5 What are you looking for today. Is there anything coming up? That's keeping you feeling motivated and inspired.
Jodi:
Yeah, this year has started off really crazy for me like in a good way. Um, but like a lot of what we've been talking about um I felt this urge to. this year that I really wanted to focus on doing more just for creating. Um I really really really want to do another book. But I think I want to do it without a publisher so I can have complete creative freedom um, and. That I think will kind of inspire me in other ways. So I've been working on that for a while and kind of hoping to like I also have been collaborating with a lot of other people like creatives and chefs and stuff like that and I've had some really Cool conversations and like I used to work a lot alone and that to me has been really exciting and has like opened up new like windows in my mind kind of of of possibilities. So. Yeah, it's those things I feel like I'm trying this year is all a lot about creativity for me and just like pushing myself in different directions and trying new things and yeah, hopefully all works out so telling myself hey.
Michelle:
Yeah, well in 5 years you yourself would look back and tell you that it does well. I can't wait to see. I can't wait to see what you do? How can people follow you and keep up with your work? Where should people go?
Jodi:
Yeah, yeah, it will be great. So yeah, yeah. So I mean I'm mostly on Instagram right now. Um, I'm still good at cooking even though I've been trying to change forever. Um, I know it's so funny because it's my old blog name but it doesn't mean I don't use my blog anymore. Um, so yeah, that's the main. That's the main way I am considering doing something like a Patreon or something of doing some sort of paid for content to help support my creative projects like the new cookbook. So if I do that I would obviously announce it on Instagram pretty. I would push it out there. But yeah I think Instagram is the main way. Yeah.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, awesome. Well Jodi thank you so much for doing this and catching me up on all the things. So nice to see you.
Jodi:
Thanks for having me.
