4. Brent David Freaney: Cracking the code on culture
Brent David Freaney is an artist working in digital media and conceptual sculpture. I first worked with Brent to build websites for Veuve Clicquot Champagne, and he soon became one of my favorite partners and people to work with. Since 2011 he has created, designed, and developed a body of work committed to fueling subculture across the digital landscape both through his studio, Special-Offer, and his personal practice, where projects are animated by a desire to generate new exploratory and critical frameworks. Approaching identity systems as malleable structures, Freaney works within the confines afforded by the internet to reshape the possibilities of unbounded digital space.
On this week’s episode, Brent and I discuss how he found community on the internet at a young age, imposter syndrome and his will to problem solve, his mindset in establishing company culture, and how he’s scaled the Special Offer team from one to 11 in such a short amount of time.
I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did!
MORE BRENT:
Special Offer: specialoffer.inc
Special Offer’s Instagram: instagram.com/specialoffer.inc
Brent’s Instagram: instagram.com/spamriskmissedcall
MORE CREATIVE JUICY:
Michelle’s Instagram: instagram.com/mich_wainwright/
Say hello to Michelle: creativejuicypodcast@gmail.com
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Michelle:
Thank you for doing this with me.
Brent:
Yeah, of course I'm super excited and thank you so much for asking me. I'm you know I'm I'm ah I don't I don't know why you would but but I'm happy you did who.
Michelle:
Are you kidding? No, I'm so excited to talk to you.
Brent:
Yeah, yeah, totally I mean I'm just excited to talk and talk you know I think about it and um, you know I hope I hope I do a good job then.
Michelle:
Yourself. Can you introduce yourself and explain a little bit about what you do?
Brent:
Yeah, so um, my name is Brent David Freeni. I am a creative director and entrepreneur and a small business owner. A bunch of things like that. Um i. Own a creative tech company called special offer we focus specifically on you know the creation design development production post-production of generally digital experiences. We focus primarily on. Ah, working within people that are in the cultural sector. So a lot of fashion. A lot of music, a lot of art and things like that. Um, and yeah I like to play guitar. My hobbies include oh my gosh.
Michelle:
So what was your first job?
Brent:
So my first job was at Schlotsky's Deli. I was the drive-through attendant and I think that I was actually too young so I grew up in a small town outside of New Orleans but on the Mississippi side of the border. So. Um, you know it was a rural area. There wasn't really a lot to do and also ah it feels a little lawless when I think back at it which is like that you know I think that I was 14 I was like I think I want a job. My mom was like I'm sure that schlotzky's will hire you even though you had to be 16 to work and so they did. I made ah $4 and ¢30 an hour and I was working around the clock until I got fired. Yeah I got fired because I skipped because I skipped work 1 time to to go watch 9 to 5.
Michelle:
Oh no, you got fired.
Brent:
Um, a play version, a dinner theater version of 9 to 5 which I don't even know why I did because I'm not really that interested in that in that movie but I will say that my with my first job with my very very very first paycheck which was $198 after about you know, two weeks I went and bought I sent it all on a trampoline.
Michelle:
Beautiful. What a great thing. Um I don't even think I know this but then where did you go to school and I mean how did you start dabbling into design.
Brent:
Yeah, um, so you know I started myself working in design or sort of like thinking about design or thinking about creative fields before I really went to college. You know when I was this sort of. Everything I say and I think is the crux of what special offer and I do which is interesting because I'm trying to understand lately what you call it, like my separation from special offer for the longest time. So It was like I was. I shall offer and I think that my identity I'm starting to understand is that the differences between the two are the nuanced sort of contrast between my life individually versus you know I guess a company that I've been working hard to build. But um, you know the crux of sort of like what I do or who I am is that you know I Grew up. In a small town. Um, and there wasn't really anybody like me around to kind of talk with you know, engage in culture. But with you know, kind of just very um, sort of I was you know very alone in that space I always joke that um. I had zero friends in high school and when I say zero friends. It's not because I like you know I just straight I had zero friends like and but also I wasn't really interested in having friends at the school. You know I went to a school that had like 30 people in it. My sister is a little bit younger than me. She was wildly popular. So you know 2 years younger than me and like the most popular girl in school and everybody was you know and me I just sort of like I just knew that I wasn't really it wasn't like I felt like I was you know better or that there was drawing a line in the sand or anything. It was a very sort of like passive loaner phase for me but I just didn't really. There wasn't really anybody else hanging out with you on a daily basis or anything and so I turned to the internet to basically help find community through platforms or early social media platforms like livejourn or fredster diary lad and so you know these are. This is from a time when you know there wasn't really anything like news before myspace it was honestly honestly it was before friendster but it was just sort of like you know I would go meet friends based on Mutual Interest you know, comment back and forth on their weird sort of like live journal posts and then um. You know, ah start forming you know small communities on aim and stuff through there. Um, in doing that you know I always wanted to make my you know live Journal look the coolest or do you know or or kind of trick it out in this sort of interesting way and I think that like it was. Simple enough for me to kind of understand or grasp. You know how to do it. Um, and so from there you know I think that it kind of just carried on like through my life and so you know I'm 36 now you know that was probably started when I was about 14 or so um. You know and I think that sort of like blogging and small and sort of like you know in that small sort of world helped me sort of break out of my shell, find that stuff and then kind of ultimately then decide and determine. Oh this is something that I can actually help other people do like I could you know I can work within you know these music communities or art communities to sort of be like hey. Do you need a website? Do you need any design work. Do you need any of that sort of stuff and then I can you know help fill in the gaps there. I think that like me you know where I come from in this is like a very sort of organic space which is what I've always felt. You know, from a technical standpoint. You can really learn to do anything like um, you know design work technically isn't Rocket Science you know web developments aren't rocket science even though you may see it that way. You know it is. It's all very just vocational. I can just learn how to do those things but what I couldn't learn is like that. But you can't learn it like the feeling and sort of like that connection part of it and so I always sort of prioritized friends and you know communities and sort of like that over trying to get technically the best at what I could do um you know.
Michelle:
Yeah, no, you are. I mean I think the things that may make you self-conscious or feel like you can't relate to people in high school. I mean it's such a unique time in everyone's life I feel like that ends up especially for creatives. That perspective and whatever it is you feel that makes you weird or different and why you can't relate to someone in your 30 person high school in a small town in Louisiana that is your strength I mean that's why you're able to. Working with clients or working for yourself and having this completely different perspective is because you know not being like everyone else is I mean what a beautiful thing because you can look at the world through you know your own lens and then.
Brent:
Yeah, and I think that it also you know it kind of taught me sort of like how you know?? Ah, when I tell this story you know I and I always sort of I always sort of explain that it's that it was a passive you know thing me being kind of not like anyone else I think there's sort of like this thing that. You know sometimes like weird kids free. You know? Ah I mean like I was you know, but like but like you know they can be very like um, Angsty like I had no friends and deed-da like you like quite cool guy thing but it's like it wasn't like that it was more like. Throughout the days I was just sort of able to I became one of the things that I think that I'm really good at and the reason why I've been able to kind of go in the way that am is that I'm sort of a chameleon in a way which is that I can kind of move through social groups and kind of have conversations with all of them and I and I sort of learned how to do that I think through high school being able to just sort of like. You know, not give everything or be able to kind of move through conversations with anybody and kind of you know do the thing and because I'm a kind of animated guy because I'm kind of funny and I'm you know, kind of and and I'm a ham I love when people laugh but you know and I'm very performative and stuff like that I think that you know it. It taught me a lot and helped me in the creative industry in a way because now I know the sales process of what we do. We're kind of pitching someone and kind to get them trying to get them excited about something is it's just always something That's come very naturally to me and I think that that's to me that's the thing that's like ah, not necessarily something you can learn um or something like you know and I think that we all. We all have that in our industries like we have people who you know that that's everywhere which is like you can if you can talk and sell the thing and do the thing and talk to people and figure out how to kind of work. You know it. It kind of goes a long way or something and so anyway you know so. Um, through basically through live journal and through like kind of blogging platforms I'd sort of become friends with people that live in California you know I was like living you know that was still like 1617 and then ultimately when it came time to go to school I chose I wanted to go as far west as I possibly could. Um, just kind of towards California and for some reason that was Las Vegas so I went to university of Nevada and Las Vegas which was you and lb which is ah was a really wild choice. The only reason I chose it was because I got like they just gave scholarships for art there and. Sorry you are exactly and in the you know process. Ah ah, sort of in 2003 when I went to when I went to school you know you and lv had a pretty good arts program. They you know it was they could because Las Vegas had so much money you know so they could pay. Ah, really great artist like Dave Hickey or you know to to come and teach you know at you know you know, payment like a billion dollars and he'd be there for like 2 years or something and so it's like it was a really great time to be able to go there and kind of do do art. But when I got there I you know I just hated living in Las Vegas so much it was just so awful. And yeah, it just wasn't you know it wasn't a match for me I felt like you know I was like working at like at this point I was like working at like the gap at caesar's palace like they get you know at night from like 5 p m until 2 a m and then I go to school all day just was a kind of a weird life and I feel like you know, growing up sort of in New Orleans. There was a similarity in New Orleans and there is to Las Vegas which is that it's a you know it's an industry controlled by a lot of you know partying. You know it's vague. Both of those cities are very like heavy drinking. You know, just people just like going out. They're very, you know, focused on tourism and the idea of. That and so it is you know it wasn't quite a match for me and so I started just driving to Los Angeles every weekend like I would guy would you know go to school Monday through Thursday then Thursday night I would drive to l a crash at a friend's place people I had met on Livejournal and then I would like stay there till Sunday night and then drive back to a you know that night and then basically did that for. You know, ah a full year or so before more or less just being like I would rather do that than live in Las Vegas and until I dragged out of college. At that point you know and and just sort of moved to um.
Michelle:
Wow And then what did you do I mean did you set up work somewhere or did you take classes.
Brent:
I mean I think no I think you know my thing was that I was like for me I Never saw you know it's funny as I get older i'm starting to change. But until recently I. Always I've never seen for me the point of higher education because so much of what I do you know is vocational. It's something that you know, especially with the rise of the internet. The way that we have information nowadays I just sort of feel like everything I've I've I've I've I didn't learn anything about web development in. Um, school there was not 1 class for you know through coding. Um, I'm glad that I learned history like art history. I'm glad I learned sort of like design history and can talk about that conversation I get. You know, just to be able to have conversations about design is important to me and so I'm glad that I know the references and and do that and that's something I definitely learned from school I probably would not have learned elsewhere. I don't think so, but you know for me I just. It was almost like design with secondary creativity that was all secondary.. The primary thing was like what do I want? How do I want to have like what do I want my life to be like where do I want to live you know I I grew up you know in ah with you know, a very supportive family but I also was very like you know when you're a kid. You don't have freedom. You don't want freedom until you know and until you're sort of 18 you have to sort of do the things that you want to do and even if they're not a match for you. It's like you know you have to live here at your parents' house. Even if you don't like living here like all you know, um in the geographics place and you know whatever and so I just was way more interested. And work with second to that so or like create you know and and because I know that I'm a creative person and so that you know generally that's just going to come out in any way shape or form and I really feel that way which is that just because I do you know design work. It's like the idea of understanding composition or the ideas. I'm gonna say this again. The circles are driving.Okay, yeah, um, yeah, so you know work was always something that was not um, first. In line for me I knew that I needed obviously to make money I knew that I needed to be able you know, especially because when I moved to La my parents were obviously pretty upset that I was dropping out of school to do that and so they were you know.It was a very much like as I moved there. It was very much like okay cool if you want to do this like you're on your own type of a thing you know, um, and so you know so so I just sort of like figure. You know I was more interested in just sort of. Being in l a and kind of making friends and kind of being within that community I had played music kind of my you know all through high school and that was something I was really interested in and I was also really really really interested in like indie music at this time and so I wanted to sort of be within the music scene in Los Angeles and so through that sort of you know, kind of playing in bands and sort of jumping around you know between. In that world and that sort of became something that I was way more interested in and and and a part of and I think that you know that was something that was for the first time when I got to la and I met a bunch of people that were interested in the same things that I were in real life I was like oh wow this is what it's like to have a friends group. You know and that this is what it's like to have a community to feel support in this way and I just was so interested in being a part of you know, just making friends of people and just being you know in that space and so um and so you know, kind of through that I figured out that because I was good at you know, making websites or design work or you know whatever you know making teacher. Design stuff like that. It's like you know, specifically within the music community. It was really helpful because I could offer that as a service to people for you know, basically free because I just wanted to do that with them and get closer to them and then you know that was sort of. To me like the the reigns of and and the reason why I um sort of did all of that I um, you know I didn't really start taking design seriously and doing it as ah as a profession until I was 30 or so so you know from the time I was um, you know. 19 new to Los Angeles through 30 I was just kind of bumping around working at like vintage stores working at weird clothing stores. You know, ah hanging out you know I was and and then yes, that's the storm 100 %
Michelle:
Yeah, so you're entirely self-taught when it comes to development and coding. So how did you go about learning that? What was that process like for you?
Brent:
Hundred percent. Kind of like you know in the same with the same energy and emotion as you know as the things that I just mentioned which is like you know, just kind of wanting to be a part of something and figure out how to do it. You know music communities and arts communities are very Diy communities. They're very sort of like how do we get things together and push things together and make it happen even if we don't have the money or the logistics to be able to to to do that and so kind of in the same energy or you know with the same feeling I always look at coding that way and that's something that I tell every single person that works.Offer which is that you don't actually need to know how to do the things you're hired for right now I mean to a certain extent. Yes, you too but like you know it's more that there is a willingness to just figure it out you know and so that sort of you know the websites. They've always Started really simple then they got more complicated. They got more complicated but it's just way more like ah you know every single time that we come with it with that. We enter a project that 's going to have something new. I Get really excited because I'm like we don't know how to do this and like we're going to figure it out and a lot of the time it's like you know. Popsicle sticks together to like whatever that saying it's like makes it feel like you know, insane. but I buy 1 but that's also something that I feel like I've learned a lot both about myself and both about the business in that way which is I'd sort of think like you know.
Michelle:
If I can and if I can interject I think that is so awesome because I am someone who from the way you described it. You are comfortable in the unknown and kind of like experimenting to figure it out and find a solution. I'm the kind of person where if I don't know something I will literally buy an online class just so I have some sort of guidance and template and structure to learn because just getting in the back end of something and trying to figure out stresses me out so much I need a lot more structure but for someone like you to just. Get in there and figure it out and be completely self-taught and to make the kind of digital experiences. You make it so awesome. Um.
Brent:
Thank you, You know if there's a downside to it though which is that like I you know I wouldn't change it but it also comes with like a really heavy sense of imposter syndrome. Sometimes you know sometimes I'll be like why would these companies pay me to do this. You know it's. Simple 1 or 2 I'm like oh my God I don't know is this the best way that this should have been done and what if it was done in this other way and if it was done in this other way then it probably would've been better and that means that you're not the best developer and that means that you know you start spinning in this way of being like you know, like specifically within the web development or sort of like digital development software Development communities. There's a lot of people who are very particular about the way that things are built and as they should be I think there's standards that need to be. You know, followed, etc, etc. But you know what I like. Perspective on it has always just sort of been I'm not building websites for other developers I'm not building experiences for other developers to analyze my code and listen there's been times I mean like we did this. We did this thing for um. We did this project for a museum a couple of years ago and was like ah the sort of augmented reality app and you know, whatever but like two years three years later apparently someone was giving a talk on that app and they were like showing code samples in like ah in a ah. Powerpoint presentation and I found it online somewhere and I thought to myself like you know they they weren't like calling it out as as as wrong or incorrect mining but they were just showing code samples of like oh this is how you might build something like this and I was like really stressed about it because I was like oh my god what if that wasn't the right way to do it like someone's gonna find out that I didn't do this in the right way and what is I did it it but it's like. You know that's what everyone's also doing. You know it's also we're all we're all sort of just faking it until we make it if like if the products are happy on the frontend. You know, then what does it really matter what happens in the backend? You know.
Michelle:
Right? And also you're so diligent I can't imagine the back end is a hodgepodge like I'm sure it's great.
Brent:
It's not good. The other thing is that you know this is what I'm saying about being able to like figure it out like or or like you know this is just the downside of just jumping into something and then trying to like you know Macgyver it together is that you know. Yes, you feel that you know the energy and the confidence of being able to like I know that like if someone came to me with something we always say Yes, we always say yes and we've never not been able to do something even things that I'm like there's no way that that's going to happen. We've figured it out and it's not like we're. You know movie mountains here. It's just like we're problem solving. It's you know we're solving the puzzle and I think that with that though comes the idea of like you know, like imagine if you were going to build a house right? like.If I was like yeah I'll build a house you know I think I could I'm like the kind of person that would say yeah I could build a house I'm sure I could figure out how to build a house but then like as soon as someone started walking in it. You know, but like but that's what it is. It's like you start testing it. You're walking in it is yeah you know it's it's it's shaky a little bit and so I think that. It's important. It's been an important part for me to sort of think about and I think that also you know there's been strength in numbers when the special offer was just me. You know it was a lot different. Um because I didn't have a yeah yeah number.
Michelle:
Yeah I want to talk about that. So how did you first start getting work and then when did Brent:: Freeney like how did you transition into a special offer and what did that look like?
Brent:
Yeah, yeah, so um, you know, kind of just as an extension of working with friends and making weird little you know I had friends that were in fashion I'd make lookbooks for them or I would kind of make sort of like oh you on a website. We'll make a website. It's like little. You know, kind of dinky things I started realizing that I could probably do this. You know in a real way and so I sort of started to set up. You know a studio that was just I mean I I moved into a studio in downtown Los Angeles and it was just sort of me there and I was just taking on projects and doing them. Um, my own and um, you know and it was great on some levels and on another level was completely stressful. I think that I started a special offer in 2014. It's now 2022 so I guess that's eight years. Um, you know I'm somebody who likes, yeah ah, what's the word like I'm always really focused on the end product in a really positive way but when it comes to sometimes actually doing. Like like I'm extremely diligent and I'm extremely nosed to the ground but I realized at a certain point probably around year four of just sort of keeping my nose to the ground and working and working and working that all of the stress and all of the sort of like project management and you know I was doing all design all development all project management all maintenance afterwards. All you know. Every single time. It's like I was living on my phone I was I could not get off my phone and I would be and I was just I was completely anxious all the time because I was just waiting for something to for really for the other shoot a dropper for or for someone to come in and with an upset email and stuff like that and so I started kind of realizing that there were certain parts of the job that were getting me insane amounts of stress and anxiety. And that I needed to potentially bring somebody in to be able to like mitigate some of those stresses that I was sort of having and so obviously the first part of that and 1 thing that I don't you know that I'm really um I'm I'm really bad at drawing a line I'm really bad at you know at saying like no and so. As somebody who's in that space. Yeah I was like I need someone here to say no I need someone who's monitoring, but this got this the scope of work I need somebody who's saying great. No, we'd spent too many hours on this because I have a hard time doing that and then I was you know. Like I remember I was in 2017. I took a two week vacation to Greece and I was working until 3 a m every single morning. I did not go to the beach. 1 time you know and I was just like just because I was like oh god you know I don't want clients to be outside I don't want clients we have set now they're on my time zone now you know night at night I need to be working for them. It was, I mean , insane.
Michelle:
Yeah, it's hard I mean I feel same way even at an agency like you need a manager who can step in when someone is being out of line to kind of put the foot down like you need a good cop bad cop. Even if it's a persona you make up I don't know if you watch the shrink the shrink next door have you seen it.
Brent:
Yeah, yes, yeah, totally what? yeah now. But I know about it. Yeah yeah.
Michelle:
Like Norman Horowitz oh you make up a fake lawyer you make up someone.
Brent:
Well, that's what I'm so you know when I so that's what how a special offer first started kind of started actually is that I you know started small with this with billing right because I I hated following up on invoices and being the guy that was like following up on invoices so I created Oscar at http://specialoffer.com or whatever and then Oscar would follow up with billing things from people.
Because no one knew Oscar and they're like oh god you know and and I started realizing that the more you know that the larger the team the the higher the budgets for projects but also the less pushback I was getting from clients because now we're you know. And so that started simple. You know for 2 years I only had one. There was a studio manager and then there was like another developer you know, ah that that sort of worked there and we were kind of all working together and then um, actually let me take a step back when I started such an offer Gabby to Tao came with me. We I was you know I had known Gabby just though she my ex-boyfriend her gone to colors together and she and I had you know, really hit it off in a way and I was and she was a gra gri. She's an amazing graphic designer and I knew that you know I couldn't take on too much work. She said she would need to sort of come with me and so um. You know so Gabby was always sort of here through the process but it still was very much like it's on me, everything's on my shoulders and Gabby. You know Gabby was there. You know, for support. Um, but you know as I yeah I started sort of realizing at some point like. Just isn't I just need to kind of build the proxies and kind of do the stuff or whatever I mean. At one point I think I built like 74 websites in 1 year alone. I mean it was insane and honestly like you know without getting too dark. I mean it was dark. It was the most depressing year of my life. I was just like all I was doing was working and working and working and working I would wake up and I'd work until I'd go to sleep around 3 in the morning I'd wake up the next day I would go to sleep. It was just like I could not stop.
Michelle:
Yeah, so when you moved into the studio in Downtown L A is that when you came up with a special offer like was that the name you attached to what you were doing or did that just come later.
Brent:
That came later so the name that attached to what I was doing initially was like http://wwww.branddavidreie.usllc which is like Nota you know, does it roll off the tongue really? well. Special offer I don't know where the name came from. one day it just I've been thinking about certain things and it just sort of felt like it could stick and I and I really hate defining things like defining myself. It's really hard for me to like. You know some people are really good at branding themselves or some people are really good at you know, ah setting up like you know this is the thing that you know it's like you know coming with band names naming their children. It's like every single time that like someone talks to you know, naming their children and I'm like I would have an existential crisis if I had to name a child because I just am like oh I'm choosing this thing right now that's going to last forever and this is going to stick with them right? and I think that. Special offer it became this sort of thing where like I entered the zone of like fake it like like like I had already started like I made up the fake email address and it was like I was just sort of doing this thing where I was like I'll pretend like I didn't even come up with the name that I just work at this entity and then like. You know the work will kind of push through and it's only been until recently that I'm like oh shit I think I actually kind of like the name you know I think that I hate Oh thank you? But I think that you know I Just think that I um it it was just like this thing to separate it was another way to separate myself from the work so people couldn't you know? And so the clients act with a little bit more respect when they talk to I think that within this work within this field and specifically in you know 2022 when everybody's always available in communication. Ah, it just wouldn't stop. You know, ah all day all night emails everybody you know and specifically in creative services. It's really difficult to always have a good client relationship. It's not. It's not going to happen and so when you want it to so when you want so badly for the client relationship to be so good. You know, sometimes it's just not a match and that's okay, but it takes time to kind of figure out that like oh this isn't about you being you know? ah you know a good or bad designer. This isn't about you. Fulfilling the clients who's not. It's like this are 2 people in a relationship and you and and you know or 2 entities in a relationship and it's like sometimes it's a match and sometimes it's not and that's okay, if it's not a match.
Michelle:
It's also I mean a lot of times and correct me if you feel differently. But when you are working with the client. You're not speaking with a creative director or someone who understands what it is. You're doing so a lot of it is education and explaining things in a way that's easy to understand.But your client a lot of the time is looking at timelines they're looking at budget they're looking at snails numbers and it's I imagine extremely difficult from the creative side of things to manage that and you need to be able to I mean a good client in my eyes is someone who is Open to learning and humble about what they do not know and someone who wants to collaborate with you because I mean a lot of people don't understand design work and not necessarily to their fault but you need to have some humility especially when you're when you're working with someone to build a website or build an app or.
Brent:
Well that and that you know well that's what I that's what I always say you know it's like a special offer exists. You know as ah as ah as an 11 person professional entity that knows that can advise people as to what we think.Looks good and acts. Well for you know acts good for you know for on the devices that that that works you know that we we know this is what we do for a living period. You know all like we're always thinking about this and so when you're working with the client you know I think it's we don't know it is a very there has to be a balance there which is that you know. For example, sometimes we don't know the client. We definitely don't know the client's brand as well as the client knows that brand they're in all day every single day right? So you have to be able to kind of like step back and and and really balance that client relationship in a way where you're sort of like okay like you know if you trust me and we're operating from a place of total Trust this project's going to go great.But if we're not operating from a place of total Trust if we're not operating from a place if you just think that we're like here to do the work that you need to get done and like check off the list or or you know it's not really going to work or we might not necessarily be the designers for you because. This is only going to work if you think that we're the ones that could do this better than anyone else. You're like that you're happy with that, that we're working together and that's not from a conceited place, that's from a place of you know and and and it's vice versa right? This is not going to work unless that content your brand your your. You know what? What you're trying to deliver is also hitting the mark where that needs to hit because it's a marriage of both of those things I could build. The you know special operator builds the most amazing website for somebody with, you know, 2 photos on it and it's not going to be good. You know there are 2 pieces of content. It's like we could make it, we could design it forever and and you know, but but but it's it's a marriage of both those things and we're just here to kind of help figure out the canvas in which those things should be just showcased or something.
Michelle:
Yeah, well you dropped in there how you're an 11 person team which I definitely want to discuss because congrats that's amazing. But first I mean you've.Won a lot of awards and been given a lot of a claim for your client work some of your clients Louis Vton Lisa says Gah Moma Nike opening ceremony I guess I'm just curious are there any specific projects that stand out to you as ones you're especially proud of and I'd love to.Looking back on your 74 websites and when you're and you do so much more than websites I also you build apps you build full experiences like you do so much more. You do so much.
Brent:
Yeah, um, yeah, you know my favorite projects are not the ones that have. Biggest well sorry, my favorite projects are the ones that have the highest visibility but oftentimes don't have a very high budget right? and those ones not ah ah. Let me take that back. Actually I want to strike that from the record. You know my favorite projects are the ones that are what I just sort of mentioned, which is that they operate from a place of complete trust and so my best friend is an artist Martin Sims. She is, you know, works through a lot of different types of media and does a lot of different kinds of interesting things and through Martine we've probably worked on. You know, maybe 7 or 8 projects at this point that are all these sort of like digital environments. Whether that be. An app or whether that be you know a weird sort of video work or a machine learning generative play like all of these sort of weird you know experimental things and those are really my favorite projects because she's just. We trust each other so much in that space. It's just like okay you know, go for it. Do it, you know and she's not second guessing what this looks like and how it feels. How is it working? You know it's very so it's very much like I you know I can kind of give everything to it and and make it as weird as I want it to get and and kind of you know and do that stuff. Um, you know I think that from a. That one's like a brand David Free personal favorite. But I think that when I think about a studio favorite I probably think about the work that we've done for um Performa so performa and is a New York arts
Brent:
Institution focused specifically on performance art. They've been. You know, very very very present within the ah art world for you know Twenty five thirty years at this point ran by Rosie Goldberg who is the authority on performance art and I think that you know. Special offer was the first project that I think that we entered with a full team of full support and all of us worked together and have continued to work together to make a very large project. Very large splitprint for that website in the very present. You know I think about the environment and I think that through that there has been a lot of work that we've done. You know this is where my focus has really changed, like as the team has grown. I'm always going to be interested in creative things. I think that I'm always going to be in some way shape or form. You know an artist I More focused on an entrepreneur like you know I'm I'm growing the business. At this point you know and and and that's like a fun project for me. You know I see how workflows work between us figuring out how to make sure that we're organized, getting us all on the same page, making sure that everybody feels confident and excited about the things that they're doing, you know and then also. And also just looking at special offer as ah as as its own organization and branding special offer and and working on just special offer specific things Those that's my favorite part of it and that's actually what I'm really the most excited about now is that now that we do have a team you know I get to sort of. Jump in on the projects that I want to jump in on you know while and they're all really important to me and you know and and every single thing that comes through our studio I have my eyes on and and and and I you know I had a direct sort of hand in but it's really nice for me to be able to work at special author as an organization and look at that you know, um. 1 of the things that I think that like is you know through that. What's become super important to me is that you know I mentioned this ah a little bit ago but you know I you know when I went to greece and that was there two weeks working you know, forever and ever and ever kind of a deal and I realized that it just kind of wasn't. You know that in this industry and in the service industry and the creative services industry. You can often feel like you have to keep giving to your client and you can't say no and that's been something that I've been really loving finding. Our voice in which is that you know I I left that year covid hit you know does the 2019 I was in grease and that's when I was you know could that just was working working working working working I think I went out. There were like three days I didn't go outside, I was just working. And covid hit the beginning of the next here and we had we all had kind of a break you know? At this point we were just like a 3 or 4 person team. And yeah, yeah.
Michelle:
Oh my gosh, 8 people and what 2 years? That's amazing.
Brent:
Um I had this thing where I was like you know when Covid we can set up that we get to set up our jobs in the way that we want to set up our jobs we get. We get to define the rules of how we engage with people you know and so that was really where I started kind of being like great if we're going to grow a team. Want to grow a team in a way that's sustainable and that everybody can work here and really enjoy their lives. You know that kind of separation between work and home. I think that when it takes over your life and all you're thinking about is work which by the way Naturally I'm always doing just as I think that that just is that. You know, always thinking about work. But I think that you know I just wanted to be able to build the space that people would like to come and work in in a healthy way and that we can also help ah have managed our clients in a really sort of healthy way as well. And so. You know when we did that I was like great if we're going to start hiring people. We're going to start growing it out and I worked you know I worked really closely with Natasha Zeller to sort of Natasha gave me the backbone to kind of build a special offer. Basically so I know that you know Natasha um, she's you know she's one of my best friends for the longest time. Ah, and. You know she was on a break between leaving her previous job and going, you know, just going to school for um, talking to my therapist right now and I think you know I think and kind of within that space. She was like hey do you want help just kind of looking over the business side at a special opera and I was like yeah that would be great and honestly you know just by virtue of having the natasha there. And just by knowing her being able to check me when I'm kind of thinking about things in a wrong way or or supporting me in other ways and also kind of just giving another really competent very you know very intelligent person. Up there with a client gave me the backbone to be like you know, okay great. She can be like a good cop and a bad cop. You know Natasha can be a bad cop.
Michelle:
Right? And she knows the best way to be the bad cop because her experience is on the client side so she can give you perspective on from a different she can give you a different perspective and.
Brent:
Exactly Yes, Yes, so then sometimes when I'm upset about it or or I get upset about a project and I'm like no we can't do that data. You know she checks me and she'll say as a client I think that I might want this. I think that it's I think it's unfair if they don't if if I'm if I'm not getting x as a client so we have to do x and you know and it's but you know she really helped me and and and really kind of gave me the background and from you know, honestly from Natasha joining it was like the entire business. Bloomed and in sort of a year in this sort of really great way. You know, but as it was growing and as we decided. Okay, we're going to start bringing in people. There were things that I was like before. It's easier to make rules now before we scale up so that when we so that when we get to that we're already kind of in these prop in the.
Michelle:
What's so great.
Brent:
You know these human resources or or sort of like healthy work styles and so you know I was like I want three days off every week I do not I need three days off so you know the work that we're doing in front of a computer all day every day. It's just training and so I thought to myself. Okay, I want to work Monday through Thursday. I don't want to work Friday through sunday. I want to work 10 a m to six pm I don't want to have to work before 10 a m or after six p m and I don't want anybody on the team to have to do anything outside of those hours ever and if we can build that as an invariable then we can determine if we are how many projects we're taking on if we're taking on too many things how to deliver you know and that sort of thing.And through that we make it extremely extremely extremely clear to clients like this is when we're working in this is when we're not working like we work 10 a and to six p m we do not work before after that time we yeah. I was like we know and we're and we don't work right? There's of course if something comes up and you know and we're not going to sit around and you know we're we're we're very present and available. But what I'm saying is that we're not doing you know we're not doing the redesign on the things that you need on ah on a Friday morning for your. That's not the way that this works. Also in doing that I was like you know I want to be able to offer health insurance I want to be able to offer time off and you know and also as a small business. We didn't have the budgets to really be hiring people specifically developers in the way that like Google or Facebook or Twitter can hire developers right? like you can go to Google. Like an entry level developer I'm sure you probably make like $180000 two hundred thousand dollars a year but like such a offer not that doesn't have the budget to be giving people $200000 a year and so I was like how can you know what I can do however is provide like a ah a simpler. Life or a simpler relationship with work right? Which is you know you get to you get to do this and also have your life and not just be behind behind the screen all times and so also through that you know we offer health insurance and we and we give two weeks off in the summer and two weeks off in the winter we use 2 studio closures every single person gets on top of that. Another. Ah week for vacation. It's like you know it's you do 4 1 k you know all of these things. We get to define them and we have to operate within them and yeah sometimes clients don't like that approach but my opinion of that is that if they don't like that approach.
Michelle:
Right? I mean I think yeah I think you know everyone especially creatives need to have but everyone every person you need to have some sort of outlet outside of work to make I mean it makes you better at your job.
Brent:
This isn't a match and that's okay. Yeah, so. That hit.
Michelle:
Having more experiences having more outlets looking at things other than work even like things that are completely unrelated. They make you better at your job like life makes you better having more experiences makes you better and.
Brent:
Yeah, totally.
Michelle:
Having dedicated time to just fully dedicate yourself to the job and to the work and then having dedicated time that's meant for you and only you like I Just think it's a positive in all respects. Of course it's easier said than done sometimes if you're a client and you need something fixed Asap But you're also not the kind of person if you know something super important to be like no sorry you know like you handle it properly.
Brent:
Yeah, yeah, no totally well this is the Malle you know we're malleable and that's the thing is that we' remain malleable too right? Like all ways it's not that we're like you know there's an iron curtain that comes down at 6 pieces of iron curtains. Yeah, yeah, it's not. There's this like you know.
Michelle:
Right? Yeah, yeah, so I want to hear we have 11 people so what is that broken down who are who's the staff.
Brent:
All things go away at six zero p m you know, but we're you know? Yeah, okay, so there's me Natasha Zeller um who is studio director Natasha focuses specifically on new business and a lot of the sort of organizational parts of the you know tast need to get done so she handles a lot of like um.She's like a stand in H R in a lot of ways but she does you know she kind of manages a lot of the sort of like organizational duties that need to be had as well as you know working with and meeting new clients and and and but and binding partnerships that that are really sort of special. Um. There's Clarissa big wu she's the studio manager she focuses primarily on client relations for ah, all projects so Clarissa you know is really the one that is liaising between the designers developers and um, the client themselves and that's something that I realized was. That's extremely important for people who are in that design and development world because it takes time to get into the thing that you are doing right? So like if you have you have to be able to block out 4 hours of work to do something no matter how small or large that thing is you have to be able to kind of like. And a full hour or 2 getting into it finding your way around the code getting your ideas out for the design. You know all you have to do is spend time doing that and so the only way that you can really do that is through deep work and you cannot do that if you're on email all day. Designers developers do our emails and really sort in really strategic times. We do our emails from 10 am to 11 a m every single day. We do them for 30 minutes after lunch and then we do it for 30 minutes at the end of the day Clarissa does it all day because as a client. You know relationships? That's very much her world. But if you get caught up in the email you know emails that get more emails and so if you get caught up in that zone all the time you never get the actual work done that you need to get done. Is we talking about the work and so designers developers were very focused. You know they're very focused on doing the tasks at hand. Um. From a design standpoint we have Gabby de tao who you know was the first person who started the studio with me. We have Eliza Callahan um Sean Walker and Austin Quo so there's a I know literally literally literally I know.
Michelle:
I feel like this is an Oscar acceptance speech. Ah.
Brent:
And then from a development standpoint we have Annamarie Orsy who's you know such a talented developer and also so good at client management and so you know there's a lot of things from a development standpoint that you can't expect Clarissa the studio manager to really understand right? So a client comes to her and it's like hey.I need to do x y I want to build this machine learning software program that generates a csa's voice and understands you know whatever Clariiss has to have someone to go too big. How long it's going to take I don't know. Anna Marie is somebody who likes working with Clarissa to basically manage the dev team, manage to pass on the dev team and explain how long something's going to do on top of just being an incredible engineer yourself. Um Jack Staffin Jack is sort of senior engineer he focuses on you know, sort of really large picture dev things. How are we doing things at the studio. What's work? You know ma maintaining the codebas is making sure that everything is set up in the way we want to and then we have two junior engineers who have just started ah um Aidan Pera and Ian Marshall who are both very talented.
Michelle:
Brent, This is so incredible.
Brent:
I mean it feels a little nuts. I think I hope I got everybody 4 four plus 3 yes 11 um, so.
Michelle:
Okay, so you have 4 developers, 4 designers and then 3 kinds of you Natasha and chlara so that's incredible congrats did you ever think you would have your own I mean do you call it? an agency agency firm.
Brent:
And Clarisa Exactly. So Thank you and. You know I think I guess we're kind of getting I've I've started using the well so this is the thing is I think I've started using the word creative tech company and I think that that's that's been a really. So ah, that's a specific and kind of weird thing too. But I feel that there's a lot of it. There's a lot of design studios and there's a lot of creative creative studios that don't actually build the things that they are designing and that don't necessarily make them. You know, not a great designer. But it's like when we were saying you know what? What. The name studio never really sat with me because it just sort of or you know a design Studio Creative Studio It feels a little more conceptual and also more simple, not simple. That's a bad word to say but like more um, limiting and doesn't expect exactly the thing we do creative Studios can do.
Michelle:
It's more conceptual.
Brent:
Exactly conceptual you know and we and we definitely do that as well creative direction on ad campaigns or how does this, you know and and and that's a fun part of our process. But my thing is that 100% of the work that we do is in some way shape or form relating to building software for people, you know exactly.
Michelle:
You're executing.
Brent:
And so it didn't really make like and and you know and and honestly that's our edge is that Not only are we a team of really really great designers who are really really tapped into culture and really tapped into you know what's current. What's coming? You know we understand history. We get the references. We're really really really into that but we can also develop on it and that's you know that's kind of what I was saying earlier too which is that to me every single person that works in the studio. The number 1 thing is that they understand the references they get the culture because you cannot teach that you cannot and you cannot teach you know the ways to talk to people. You know the energy, you know the vibe and you cannot teach that it's just something that exists or doesn't exist in the other part. Yeah, we can sit down for 3 hours on ah on a you know online tutorial and learn how to do that. If you want to, but you also have to want to put your mind to that. But you know, but but but but you can't teach the first part of it and so that's.
Michelle:
How do you gauge that in the interview process ? What kind of advice would you give someone who is looking to check that box? How do you do it?
Brent:
It's just through conversation like that and that's the thing with interviews I think across the board but specifically within this world. It's like you could figure it you can figure out like if you enter an interview.Not knowing how to do the job you're interviewing for like you don't need to worry about them like you can figure I mean unless you're like applying to be of applying somewhere to be a heart surgeon or something but it's like you know you can figure out anything but it's connection. It's being able to like talk to people and the personality and you know it's It's that part of it and I think that is. Always that I look for. It's like you know and that isn't to say that we that everybody at the studio is all on you know this type of level. We're already talking. You know that we definitely have people who you know move with a bunch of introverts in the studio, a bunch of extroverts of the studio you know, but we have a whole range but like to be able to understand and kind of talk about. Whatever is in a way with confidence with um, confidence in your opinions and you know that's the most precious thing that you have because also by the way clients will. See if that isn't the case clients will see if you don't have confidence in what you're saying so you need to be able to walk into something and be like I know what's up I Know what this is I know what this is and not not in an arrogant way not in a conceited way in a not in like a toxic but you know in a in a confidence and belief in what you do and what you are putting and what you are presenting to somebody. And you know and and working with them and being collaborative with them on it if it's not necessarily the right match. There's a lot to listen to. There's a lot of things that we've pitched that we're not a fit for our clients and and I've spent a lot of time you know, upset about how I think that they're missing out on a good good idea or whatever. But at the end of the day they're clients and they do need to. You know you're working on a project for them. Um, but you know and from an interview standpoint to be able to walk into someone and really just kind of like just put the work stuff aside. Don't even think about the work part of it and just try to connect and also by the way I think there's power as an applicant to understand like. You may really want this job but you need to also be looking. Is this job a match for me? If I'm talking to somebody who's interviewing me who is going to be my superior, is it somebody who I want as a boss? Is it a match for me? Yeah.
Michelle:
Yeah, don't be afraid to ask them questions So I have um, your special offer website bio says a creative tech company focused on the growth of subculture through digital experience. Like you said, but I'm curious to know how you see digital experiences changing with more technology and more social media Platforms. You know Covid like what can you predict for the future. Or how do you see your work evolving too?
Brent:
I think that we're moving towards more digital-like environments that work more as a utility than they do an experience and that doesn't necessarily mean that they can't be a good experience when you're using it. But I think that there's things like you know, um. Don't think everyone needs a website. You know there's people who have Instagram who are like you know it doesn't make sense for them to have a website they have you know fifty fifty million followers on Instagram and that's their website right? and they don't care what it looks like I mean they care what the content is you know all those all you know there's tick talker there you they don't. But they don't care about what the interface is, you know what's the content and so I think that we're moving into a place That's so much more content forward and way less the frame around what that content is you know if everyone's like oh we want a really cool website. It's great. You got a really cool website like what? what are you showing on that you know you got a really cool frontend. But what does that app do and does it help people? I think that people are looking for an actual connection to something through digital. You know, just through digital screens and what we do is to build an interface or a canvas for which to set those things in that are you know that's beautiful. Hopefully push them. Needle forward that you know that I think is interesting and I think that you know where we're sort of going with this or where the world is going with it is that we have so many brands and businesses that are advertising to us all day every day and every single way we. Place where we look is that we're looking for something that actually catches us and I think that that thing that actually catches us doesn't really it only comes from actual real things. It cannot come from campaign-oriented things that have to come from an energy within that thing and so people are going to people who are becoming more. Devoted to the brands that they work with devoted to the brands that they buy from the artists they like the music they like because it's a surefire bet that potentially they're going to be able to get more content from that person that's going to be. You know, really great and kind of emotionally resonates with them and I think that's where we're sort of headed.
Brent:
Way more focused on content I think that as special offer evolves you know I think about what what am I looking for like from 5 years standpoint 10 years standpoint there's you know there's things that I'm looking for for myself and there's things I'm looking for for special offer I think that um I think my goal for myself is to be able to you know. Where you keep you know, keep going with potential offers eventually. Hopefully it's in a space you know, maybe five years ten years from now where I could potentially step away from it a little bit and that it can um, still sort of maintain itself and that I can. Obviously jump in on the products that I really want to jump in on but then ultimately have just sort of like you know I was laughing but you know I I laugh about it the studio but first of all, let me say I really love what I do like I'm I'm somebody who's very but I'm very fortunate to have some. Somehow found something at a very early age that I enjoyed doing and that's a hard thing that a lot of people don't have and so I'm very very very fortunate to have somehow stumbled my way into that. Um, that said Ian who's the most recent person to join our team. Um, on the first day he was like you know what's your favorite like what's what's your favorite project. You've ever done or no, no, no, what do you say? he said um, who's your dream client and who would your dream client be and I turned to him and I said my dream is to never look at a fucking computer. Ah, and he was like well okay and then Natasha was like no brand because it's like you know I think that there's that's the brand David Freeni part of it which is like you know I I ah.
I love what I do but I you know I just go up and down and I bit like I love but I do but it it also I don't know that I want to be doing this when I'm 50
Michelle:
So how are you? What do you create for yourself like you know you're an artist? You're creative like is there anything you create for yourself or is your time away from special offer more about downtime activities you like to do like what do you do for yourself.
Brent:
Um, yeah, you know, um I'm some I'm I'm I'm always on I Never really and that's something that I that I'm working on a lot. You know, like through. Therapy and meditation is just the idea of being able to be silent and be calm and and sort of like sit within myself and not do anything but I'm I've always just been somebody who I'm just hyperactive I'm always doing something and so with such a offer I think that like when I'm not a special offer during my downtime I am constantly thinking about like interesting or weird things that special offer can do. You know, like oh should we do a book should we do a should we do with this should we do that like what if we did you know like that kind of so so my brain's always kind of within that space. But when I'm sort of not thinking about special offers. So I guess what I'm saying is that though we draw the lines 10 a to six p m you know I think that just somebody who by nature of being a business owner and caring about something and so so so much that actually doesn't ever stop. For me, you know the physical labor of it does but the conceptual part of it doesn't ever stop. I think you know oh should be you know is this a good tagline. What if it was like this: a creative tech company. The right thing is the wrong thing, what if it was like this. We'd put. This kind of image we get at photo 2 together like maybe this should be a film. What if we were filming it was kind of goinging in that way all the time. Um, when I'm not in that space I'm always creating the where I'm always working people to create other things that might be you know music that might be you know? Ah, I shot a film last summer with my best friend. Ah. Um, and you know I did all the costumes for it and then I was yeah I acted in it and I've been ah, really part of the editing process in that sort of way. It's like I am just always interested in collaborating and working with something regardless of it's you know it's something within a profession. It is all a professional capacity but you know, Ah, Regardless, if it's it's something that is you know in ah in a transactional capacity from a bit front business client Standpoints. You know my goal in my life and my and my goal professionally you know for myself is to always somehow it's not to get. I don't want a special offer to get bigger. I don't want it to have more than you know, right around the number of employees it has written now. I'm not interested in having a 70 person agency. I'm more interested in having a life that is healthy and allows me to have. You know the things that I want in it to have as low an impact as possible and so you know that's my number 1 thing and I also want that for every single person that works in the company. Um.
Michelle:
Um, well they're lucky to work for you.
Brent:
And so thank you I hope So I lovely realize it um listen up Buts Um, yeah you know I think that I'm also getting to a point where and I'm getting older.
Michelle:
Yeah, listen up.
Brent:
It's like I don't have the I don't have the I'm 36 I don't have the energy that I have when I was 29 24 I um I mean I do you know I can I can this like uncanny ability just like power through things but like I'm going into a space now where I'm like. Do you want kids like when is that going to happen like you're 36 not like you know or like do you want? Do you want to live in New York for you know, do you want to? What are the things you know? We always have this thing like when I'm an adult, when I'm an adult, when I'm an adult and I don't know about you but I always just feel like adulthood is still coming like I know I'm very much an adult. But I think to myself like oh yeah, like when Im older when I'm and it's like I think you know so I can clearly remember my mom's thirty seventh birthday like clearly and I'm like I'm gonna be 37 in three months you know seven months
Michelle:
Yeah, yeah, oh wow Yeah I was talking about this in my last episode. Um. Feel like when you're young, you look at adults and you think they have it all figured out and you have certain ages that you think oh by 30 you know I'll have x y z and then you're just living life and enjoying and sure parts can be hard but you haven't figured out something. As I get older I realize that no one has it figured out and while that can be perhaps a scary realization at first. It's also really comforting and exciting because in life. You never know what's around the corner and I mean my mom will always be 44. Like 44 is the age I um I remember her as and she always tells me you know the numbers change but like I you don't feel that number and then we have this whole conversation about okay well what number do you feel like and it's just I don't know.
Brent:
Yeah. Yeah, it's weird. You know I think that this is the first time in my life that I actually feel my age. I think that I know until.
Michelle:
Growing older is a weird thing.
Brent:
Probably until the beginning of covid I you know I was you know I was always just sort of like a couple years behind I was like you know I'm I'm you know oh I'm I'm probably route feeling I feel about thirty twenty you know and this is the first time that I sort of. You know this year specifically where I've been like yeah no, you are coming up on your late 30 s and that's not and that doesn't need to be a sad thing at all. Um and you know and honestly. Just kind of in speaking of a client client manager and client relationships and and sort of you know running a business and and and creative work. There's something that you only learn from aging which is just like how to weed out the things that matter and don't matter like there and there's.
Brent:
You cannot learn that without having gone through it right? like there used to be things that would freak me out about work clients getting mad emails. You know that I would get an email and it would end my day. I would like to go home. I can't work anymore like I'm feeling crazy for this email. It's like. Someone rolls into my email and think thankfully knock on what it hasn't a long time like someone rolls into my email with a crazy email it like doesn't really affect me anymore because I'm like oh this person you know that this is a these people will get you get to have your feelings I get to have my feelings.And I don't you know and and and that's something I really have only learned with age.
Michelle:
I know I always think about you know you're always told oh old people are wise and what wisdom you have and sometimes I'm like with some of the things I'm going through I'm like I am getting wisdom like I understand what wisdom is and granted and I have.
Brent:
Yes, you are Yes Yes, no I don't I think that you know we all are and we all aren't. You know it we're we're we're constantly moving through and and it ebbs and flows. There's times you know, ah, you know there's and but that's crazy like that's what life is you know I'm a very I'm in my brain a lot I'm always mapping things out and thinking about things in this very really sort of rigid way. Like I'll you know I'll look at my calendar for the day and I'll be like great I'm gonna do this from 10 am to to? no I'm gonna do this from noon to new 30 I'm gonna do this from new 30 to 3 I'm gonna do from 3 to set you know all of these things and it doesn't work that way. You know it's easy to lay it out. It's easy to say great by this date on this day and do anything. You know you robotically put the things together but it doesn't actually work that way and so I think that like this is the first time in my life that I am just allowing myself to move through those motions in a way that i. But I love or something and it's been a long challenging road you know and and and and it will and it will continue to be extremely challenging and I'm sure there will also be more down than more ups and you know whatever, but it's more like okay I'm just here for the ride.
Michelle:
That's great. Yeah, okay so Brent:: I have 5 final questions they're rapid fire style. We may have touched on them before but answer them nonetheless but question number 1 What drives you to create.And why do you do? what? you do.
Brent:
Um, to connect with other individuals can connect with the community and connect with other people in this world.
Michelle:
That's kind of cool because it's where you started um, question number 2 feeling inspired this one's fill in the blank feeling inspired feels like.
Brent:
Honestly, it's the best feeling in the entire world. I cannot explain anything more like that when I do it. Ah. When it hits you it hits you. It's like intoxicating the way that it hits you. You feel like you're just like I cannot wait to do this thing and you're just you just need to get it. You don't just work, work, work it. It. It is like no other, it feels like a superpower. And it's something that is so precious and so important to protect because if you start losing it or it stops coming you know and you know I don't. I get it probably once every two months at this point but when it comes it's like don't do it. You have to protect it and honor it in a way that you can't that you know you can. I'll be the first person to cancel an entire day of calls if I feel inspired because I cannot be on a call and you do this because it's going to go away and if I don't do this It's not going to happen.
Michelle:
Um, question number 3 where do you go to get your creative juices flowing and how do you try to overcome creative blocks? A lot of these are double questions. So it's more like 10 final questions.
Brent:
I use honestly like this is this is a very um, what do you say like it's not a very. Conceptual you know oh I go to you know I there's a website called arena a redotna and arena is a um you know it's it's a very minimal sort of pinning bookmarking board system sort of in the way that Pinterest works but without the hideous interface of everything where you can. Ah, group things into different things and there's a lot of really weird weird weird channels in arena and you can find literally anything within that within that within that website and so I'll go on and I'll look for you know, 80 s commercial screen graphs and I'll look through those and then I'll like go on. You know it's kind of click around and that sort of stuff. I do the same kind of thing on Wikipedia where I'll pull up something I was so interested in read the entire article and just kind of getting into these holes where I'm clicking around looking through other things with Wikipedia also Youtube I don't think that we I don't think that I would be who I and I you know I've never been to new posts on Youtube I've never I've never happened to like a youtuber but I don't know where I would be without that. Platform it is insane and and so so so important to be able to pull up the things that you can pull up on that website. It. It is incredible. So I would say that you know I use the internet to to become inspired I use websites and really niche. Interests on these websites and trying to find and carve out those things I mean that's kind of I know this isn't very rapid fire answer. But I think you know that's kind of like the the the thing that I think is happening in in in in this industry is that. Ah, we didn't have ah before the internet subculture existed because people connected in person to create these communities right? that where they were niche and with niche interest then the internet happened and.Information was readily available to everybody and so it wasn't like these people you know all of a sudden indie music wasn't indie music anymore because you had spot of you know all of the it just kind of changed it changed the opacity of all of the boundaries of what were did you know? ah it changed the opacity of the boundaries in different communities and so where we're going right now is I think.People who are really interested in finding these niche non-work related interests. You know I think that people are really interested for the first time at a large um as a large group of people specifically in this country and like hobbies because covid allowed us to have hobbies. So now I'm interested in quilts and now I'm interested in playing tennis. Now I'm interested in going to the gym.
You know, as opposed to just being cool. My life is focused on work and I have to be at an office from 10 you know from 9 9 to 5PM and then I go home and eat dinner and then go back to the office and say you know to be able to have the space to say great. You know and and listen like there's you know working from home isn't as efficient. it's not but you know to be able to have the freedom of someone not looking. You know this is to be able to move through this. Okay I'm Goingnna go at lunch and you know and and you know it. Ah you know I so I think that I don't know where I'm going with that's a long.
Michelle:
Yeah, it's refreshing. Well this is also separate from these questions. But what's your take on web 3
Brent:
Long Ar arduous answer. But. Yeah, um I think that web 3 is ah the vehicle towards something but not that something does that make sense like I don't think that web 3 is like the next like. We're here to stay but I think the web 3 is like the next sort of landmark in the history of the internet. I don't think it's that I think it's a vehicle that's going to get us to the next landmark in the history of the internet which is question Mark yeah.
Michelle:
Which is question Mark at this point got okay if you could tell your younger self 1 thing or 1 piece of advice. What would you say?
Brent:
I think that I would say you know if it's okay with me , if I could tell myself 1 piece of advice as an adult to my younger self I would say um. You get to do what you want to? Do you don't have to do anything? You don't want to do it professionally. There's a project that comes in. You know that you're like I don't really want to, you don't have to do it. Even if the budget is there because what happens is the more you do the work that you want to do the more that's going to breed more clients and more work that you do want to do the more you do work that you don't want to do? You're going to get more and more into the zone of doing products. You don't want to do it and so if something comes in and it feels like not a match for you, you have to have the ah. Confidence to say no and that something else is going to come and by the way it also that really helps from a negotiations standpoint because then all of a sudden it starts. You know you have to be able to get something you want out of every project and it's not a project.. You're interested and then you need to be able to get paid but you want to get paid. It. You know it changes things you know what am I getting am I getting. Personal development ment am I getting financial fulfillment, am I getting yes and you know all of these things change everything and some that's what I would say is you do not have to do anything. You don't want to do and you can only focus on the things that you want to do.
Michelle:
That's a great piece of advice. Okay, and what are you looking forward to today or tomorrow just this general time.
Brent:
I'm excited that you know it's snowing and so lovely outside right now like New York right now is when it's both. Where you don't want to be and where you do want to be at the same time which is like there's nothing cozier than being inside watching Tv on a snowy day and so you know one of my best friends came back from Los Angeles with me. Um, and you know I am just looking forward to vegging out and you know just taking a walk. You know New York New York is the best city in the entire world and I you know I lived in Los Angeles for 13 years I've only been here for about 4 but I wouldn't I wouldn't it's the best city in the entire world right now.
Michelle:
I agree. Okay so Brent where can people follow you keep up with special offers where we can go.
Brent:
Yeah, so both of our website and our Instagram handle are the same which is a special offer dot I n c so that's sort of where we are. You know you can follow a special offer. I have my own Instagram because everyone at the company made me get off of company Instagram which used to be my Instagram and so I have an Instagram spam risk missed call which is, you know, kind of through that. But there I don't really post anything. You really? don't either follow me in any way.
Michelle:
Great well Brent::. Thank you so much. It was so nice to talk to you of course stay on the link because it's neat I'm going to hit stop but it needs to.
Brent:
It was nice to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me.
