2. REO: An exploration of how art affects people
REO is a dynamic futurist poised to change the way the world views digital art. His perspectives and unique eye for art, design, fashion, music, and intuitive ability to work with technology allow him to be a world builder.
We discuss where wellness and art intercept, REO's big break with Beyoncé, what the NFT community means to him, and how REO wants the world to view digital art.
MORE REO:
REO's Work (Compiled Links): solo.to/thisreo
REO's Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/1noybErp7Z6TbSbwWbJppg
REO's Instagram: instagram.com/thisreo/
REO's Twitter: twitter.com/thisreo/
MORE CREATIVE JUICY:
Michelle’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mich_wainwright/
Say hello to Michelle: creativejuicypodcast@gmail.com
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Michelle:
Why don't we start off with you introducing yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey to getting where you are today.
REO:
Yeah, so my name is Reo. I'm a music producer and visual artist. I've been a creative person my entire life and have, you know, explored different mediums. You know throughout those years and um have just always known that I hated having a boss. So the quickest way to figure out how to work for myself or to be able to kind of just. Even just like an independent contractor or freelancer like that was like what I was always trying to figure out and you know I'd started out drawing and dancing when I was really little in college in art school I actually kind of started. Learning how to make music because I had been listening to it like constantly while I was working while I was dancing you know so it was just music was such an important part of my life so learning how to make it was important. My father was a musician but I didn't have him in my life until recently. So um. It was kind of something I had to go about on my own and I did and then that started to take off and um and then at the time I was still doing visual art like I was helping music musicians with album covers or lyric videos or. Music videos. Ah you know, just even anything to do with both sides of it. The music part and also you know the visual part and yeah I was able to to work with a handful of companies and brands and names and um. And trying to you know, take all of that info and knowledge and experience and finally kind of do my final act which is becoming an artist you know and so that's what I've been doing now and selling my own work and kind of like pushing forward my own ideas and. Things that I think should exist. So yeah, it was kind of a short synopsis.
Michelle:
That was a good one. Where are you from?
REO:
So I'm from a few places. Um my mom and my step dad were in the military so we kind of bounced around a lot but I was born in Colorado actually and then moved to Cali moved to Delaware moved to South Carolina for middle school and high school then I moved to Florida for college and Atlanta then l a the New York and now back back to Denver so I come in bouncing around.
Michelle:
Oh Wow Yeah um so in terms of making music yourself. How did that All start? It was with instruments on the computer. How did that happen? Play out for you.
Reo:
Um, to be honest I had a couple friends in high school that made music and I would go hang out with them. Sometimes I had some keyboards and stuff and I would watch them and I'll play around but it didn't really. I don't know if it didn't stick. But like I said, being a dancer, music is such an important thing like picking music, listening to it, hearing all the nuances in it and you know translating that through your body so I would always hear all the different sounds like I could separate all the sounds like oh that's that sound that's the sound. And I could see kind of the composition in my mind even before I made it and then in college I had a friend of mine who was an artist and a dancer and a musician as well and I just I think he was a rapper and. One day I was just like you know what I want to try to make something that he could wrap on. Let's just see what happens so I went to Best Buy and I bought this program for like $30 and I came home and I installed it and I just became obsessed and you know it was interesting because I didn't know. What I was or wasn't supposed to do and I remember probably like a year or so later I I went with that same friend to an actual studio. It was my first time in the studio and I went in. It was the first time I saw all these like really expensive pieces of gear and. All these things that people usually know in the industry use and here I was with that $30 program you know and I played my music for them and they were freaking out and they were like what do you use to make music and I was like I use this program. You know it was called acid at the time and they were just like. What and they just couldn't believe it that you know I wasn't using all this expensive gear you know and and just as an artist that just shows that you know it doesn't matter what brush you have right? It's just about like the person holding it and how you know what's in your mind and put it. Into reality. So yeah.
Michelle:
How cool. So then how did you start getting work and working as a freelancer in this space where there are certain people that really helped you or did just 1 relationship lead to the next? um.
REO:
Yeah, so in college they had this like a job board right? for people that were looking for artists to do certain things and I used to go on that job board like constantly to make extra money and. The ironic thing is, as I was telling you earlier, I didn't like having a boss and when I lived in South Carolina my first job was at Burger King and then my second job at Publix where I was drawing all the handwritten signs throughout the whole grocery store. So sometimes you have to draw like fruit or you have to draw you know and the letters and and it was kind of like the closest thing I could get to at the time of getting paid to make art you know and this was in high school I was doing this and then so when I transferred over to college in Florida. I told the people at public I said hey can you can wait can I transfer at all you know and they were like actually yeah so I ended up getting a job during college doing the art and stuff inside of public so that was like me being like you know I tried some restaurant jobs and stuff like that here and there. But I just always knew that this is what I was supposed to do and I would do those jobs on the weekends and stuff at the college board like face painting and I did caricatures at like a crab shack I did you know I met this guy I actually recently just talked to this guy this guy was like Fifty years old at the time and he had had a stroke and when he came out of stroke all of a sudden he had this passion to write place. It was very interesting, like out of nowhere and. And so he had all the police children's books that he wrote and he needed someone to illustrate them and so he and his wife would take me out to lunch. They bought me a bunch of like art supplies and they paid me to make these books and I worked with this guy for years kind of taking his vision and bringing it to life and. That helped me out so much you know and he recently sent me like an email and this is like I mean twenty years ago you know and he's still out there kicking around like you know and we just like talked the other day and it was just so crazy like man I thanked him so much like how far i’ve come and you know how he really supported me early and he's just so proud that you know I'm the person that worked on his books and stuff. So yeah, that was kind of like how it started for me as far as just I Just like again I Just don't like people telling me what to do. And being able to like you know, take those little jobs and stuff was closer to that goal and eventually um yeah I was able to take music and start to make money off of music too and the music money was Bigger. You know and I mean I could sell. Like you don't sell that many beats right? But when you do it's for a good amount of money so it would kind of like it kind of started making it so I had to do less art and I could just continue to focus on music.
Michelle:
Yeah, it's interesting I mean you truly are an artist in so many different Mediums I mean your hands withdrawing your body with dance and then you're hearing and you know music it involves so many different. Senses So. That's so cool to know that you kind of dabbled in everything really? um, a true artist is there anything you think that really helped foster that for you as a child like did your mom do anything at home or you know this was just you and it just took different people in different situations to bring it all out?
REO:
I Think I you know I didn't learn until much later that my dad also is an artist like he drew he drew as well and did music so he was kind of a big push behind that. But my mother is one of the best. Ambitious people I know in the sense that you know she's 60 something and she's still in college classes like she just will not ever give up on Learning. You know she was a Jet engine mechanic in the military. She has her real estate license. She does Taxes. She's got her. Minister's license. She's got her antique selling license. She's a carpenter who can fix cars. She can drive an 18 wheeler like I'm telling you like my mom is like and she just is as she was told me the other day. She's again I'm about to go to architecture school and I was just like ah okay like but I think that in combination with just like the raw talent that my father gave me kind of made it so that. Okay, here we go like when you take discipline and you know what I mean and studying your craft and putting the hours in and then also just raw talent. It can create something and my mom I think to her the other day because you know she's never told me no, you know that. Couldn't do something when I said I want to be an artist. You know she was alright cool. So what are we doing like how are we gonna make this you know a business. How are you gonna survive off this like she never doubted me and that's so important you know and on the other hand, my step dad who was the opposite. He never believed in me. So it's like I had this dual kind of inspiration of like someone who really believed in me and someone who doubted me to where I could prove them wrong and I had the chip on my shoulder like you know and I think that combination of things ended up being a good recipe for me to kind of just be. Very ambitious person. You know.
Michelle:
Yeah, well kudos to your mom. She sounds like an incredible woman. She must be so proud to see everything you're doing now. Um so I guess in terms of the music was there a specific moment.
REO:
Yeah, she really is yeah now. Definitely.
Michelle:
Where you really realize this is what I meant to do at this time in my life and I mean where did you live at the time I guess is my other question.
REO:
So I was in Florida um, like I said this was right after you know college and stuff and I was I knew that dancing and art. Was good at those things but in some ways I was better at music quicker. You know what? I mean like I had more I don't know I just had it was new I was excited about it I was getting good at it I was working hard at it. Seeing this like exponential growth and I've told this story a couple of times but you know I was diagnosed with cancer and at the time I'd been making music and stuff for my friends who rapped and. Selling beats to other rappers locally and you know I was trying to kind of like be like Pharrell and you know wear a cool chain and kind of you know, just be like a cool producer and then all of a sudden you know when you're diagnosed with something that's life threatening. Remember the first day I got that call and you know it's like who's the first person you call when you get news like that you know, um and I just didn't have the strength to tell my mom I couldn't I didn't know what to say to my girlfriend like there was just so many things and I just remember going into the room. And making music because it was like this was my way of communicating my feelings even when I didn't have the words and you know after that I think music became this time capsule. This thing I used to put all my emotions into. In order that if I did pass that my family and my friends could put this music on and and I would be in the room. You know it's like that's such a different intention than oh I just want to make some cool music and have people dance and things like that which is great. But it definitely moved into a very serious, very pivotal moment and one of my favorite producers. His name is Jay dila he inspired a whole bunch of almost every producer now. But at the time he had a. He had a crazy illness and he ended up making his last album in the hospital basically like while he was in the hospital of ed and he passed away on my birthday so it was kind of this in my head like a passing of the torch and not. And that I'm as good as him or ever will be just more So if like this person I really looked up to you know, put everything he had into this you know and I was able to beat Cancer. And so I had another chance and so I was like I get to you know, go on and try to uphold the legacy of like just creating from that place of intention Now that new place you know of this is this is you. Healing this is not just vanity. This is not just for the sake of being cool or whatever and out of that I got my first placement like right after I finished my chemotherapy and my radiation. My first placement was with Beyonce and things like this. Giant sign that I was on the right path you know.
Michelle:
Um, yeah I mean I can't imagine a bigger sign than beyonce that's incredible and such a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing. Um I guess I'm interested. You know I mean.
REO:
Right? And all. Um, of course.
Michelle:
It's like obviously I definitely can't compare it to something as heavy as cancer. But if I'm feeling personally overwhelmed or stressed or sad I have certain Instagram accounts that I follow of digital artists. Create these kinds of looping videos with sound design. 1 of them is called a water set. I believe it's his name and I mean I literally just go on my yeah I will and I just go on my Instagram and I just watch these looping videos. Which is incredibly therapeutic for me and I'm curious from your perspective from both. You know you have the patient perspective from this experience and you're also an artist. How do you see the worlds of art and medicine? Colliding because I feel like that is such a huge opportunity that hasn't been fully tapped yet in terms of digital art for healing.
REO:
Yeah I One of the experiences I remember most vividly was when I was in the hospital. It was like the feeling of being in the hospital. It's like if I smell alcohol like it just immediately reminds me of just you know I'm there. And you know the hospital is known as this really dark I mean like ah if you're in it right? If you're the person in the bed. It's a dark place that has a bunch of memories of just like man like stress and you know worry and all these things.And I've always I've had talks with people about bringing visual art and guided meditations into hospitals because what better place if you're already getting the medicine and the treatment you know what? I mean why not add this thing that has been proven right to lower anxiety levels and stress levels. Um, and and have a room where that is going on people can meditate, people can relax and um, but there isn't that I know of and I think that I had a really strong meditation practice for a few years. And I've kind of fallen off since but just like you. Sometimes it's intimidating to be like oh I'm gonna put this thing on and try to sit there or I'm gonna download this app and you know even though it's simple sometimes the act of doing it requires discipline to do it. You know, kind of misses me and making visual art that does that for me that puts me into that space is a way for me to get there. You know to be concentrated on my breathing 1 thing that my girlfriend says that I do sometimes she'll catch me. She's like hey. You're not breathing and it's like I'm either thinking really hard about an idea or I'm watching something and I'm tuned in and I'm just holding my breath and I don't realize it and you know I can't imagine what that kind of thing builds up over time. You know us. So. Remembering to breathe. Not just when you're meditating you know what I mean breathing while I'm working breathing while I'm thinking like these are the things that I feel like art can express without words.My Most recent piece is an example of that where there's no words, there's no instructions. It's supposed to be this really intuitive thing when you see it. You know you understand what to do and to breathe with it and follow it and um. Even I told this story the other day like there's a I'm really heavy into vr right now and I have been for a few years but I'm interested to see where that or how they're going to do about will and wellness and things and there's a VVr app that's like really high up on the charts and I guess a lot of people use. It. When you put it on it. It takes like 5 minutes for you to get into the meditation experience. It's like menus and there's a bunch of words and stuff and when I put it on I felt stressed out just trying to get to the part where I get you know calm and so. That's why I'm just I'm interested in the ui and the ux of how these systems work and how quickly we can get to that like if it's almost like breaking case of an emergency if it's just like you got to break 3 cases to get to the thing that you need you know what? I mean it's not helpful. How when we're ultimately stressed can we just jump right into the healing and that's why I created the infinite objects to go with it too that just is sitting on your desk or your shelf and and you can just look at it and you're in it. You know and I mean no menus. Not anything. So. I Think that um a lot of people are scared of a completely digital world of this idea of the metaverse where no one ever pulls out and is in their real life and stuff but I would argue that you know as Ar becomes a thing we won't be looking down. Into our phones Disconnected. We'll be looking through our phones you know I mean at each other and probably see each other more granted there will be other distractions and stuff going on around but I do think that mindfulness.
Is going to play a huge role like you know mental health and stuff like that. We've talked about it more now than we ever did growing up for me. You know what? I mean hearing those words. So I think we are already kind of aware that we need to talk about it more and I'm just. Glad to be someone that's exploring options even just for myself and that hopefully it can, you know, affect someone else in a.
Michelle:
Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel like wellness in general has been a trend if you will for the last I don't know 7 eight years at least and then I feel like covid just accelerated that and made. Even more widely accepted and you know virtual therapy options and it really I've thought a lot about digital art in this time for people suffering or people in hospitals god forbid alone without having visitors being able to come in. So it's interesting. Um. You also learn just as a marketer. How quickly you can lose a potential user. So that example, you gave about going into the app or whatever the vr experience then having all these words and things it's completely counter to what they're trying to do so That's an interesting point. Um, well I guess I guess to dial it back a bit I do want to get back to Beyonce.
Michelle:
I assume you made a ah track of music and then she integrated it into one of her songs on 1 of her albums um correct me if I'm wrong, but what was that like and then what did your? How did your music career form from that? Because obviously Beyonce is a huge name.
REO:
Yeah, so um I knew I had signed a publishing deal right before or right after I got my diagnosis I'm trying to think when it was it might have been after I think he was after and so. That was a huge deal because I had a manager that was helping to play my stuff for certain record labels and things like that and he had gone up to Atlantic Records and played my stuff and one of the a and s there really liked it. Played it for someone else and they had a publishing company and they wanted to sign me. Publishing companies are great because they can put your music in different rooms or submit it for different artists and stuff and so that was a promising thing for me. In the process. They introduced me to a bunch of different writers who could do the writing part of I would provide the music they would provide the song the song part of and we'd team up together and pitch that some certain places so I met 1 of these writers through that and his name is deq shoutout. You and he um told me that they were writing for beyonce and so I said cool. He's like do you have anything to say yeah so I sent some you know some tracks and they ended up picking that one and I think a couple other ones and they wrote to it and it was crazy because I remember. Wrote to it and they sent it and it was like the fastest response that they or that I had ever gotten where it was like two days after sending it they're like we want this and it was like what and that. Was kind of crazy because it happened so fast but the song didn't come out for another two years so I spent 2 years kind of nervous and you know like hopeful and we'd heard these you know rumors that it wasn't gonna be on the album anymore. Or it was or you know it was and then it wasn't and it was her favorite song and then she didn't like it anymore. It was just it was torture and it wasn't until the day that it came out that I went to the store and I bought the Cd and I opened it and I looked at the credits and there was my name. You know it's like that's when I believed it and um, of course that set it off to where you know that was the album that she had single ladies on that was kind of like her big you know Solo. Moment she had done a lot of things before but that album really solidified her as you know greatness and just to be a part of that was incredible and yeah and it just proved to myself and I think proved to you know other people in my life that you know this thing that I had been talking about.So long and saying it was gonna happen. It's like manifesting it like this is gonna happen I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this and then I did it and you know that prompted me to want to move to Atlanta and then eventually I lay to just like pursue. Being a music producer, being in music sessions all the time and continuing to work with artists and trying to see you know how to get more of these things out you know? And yeah I think I answered the question right? okay.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, no, you definitely did. It's interesting I mean I of course understand the creator space a little bit just by virtue of my job. But when. I think back to being much younger and having a favorite artist like Beyonce. At least for me I think oh she's the artist she wrote and produced by Dan . You know, maybe she had help from a choreographer but you kind of put these artists on a pedestal and everything is. Their faces are attached to all of their work so you assume it's really led by them which of course it is but with help from a lot of very talented people. How does it work if you are a music producer so you get signed by a publishing house? I assume you know them. Help forge the deals. But then when Beyonce or whoever says okay, we want this track, is there an upfront price to use it and then you know of course revenue once it's actually on the album and sold. Is that revenue only seen once it's actually out in the world and until then you're just crossing your fingers that it makes it on the track like how that typically works.
REO:
Okay, yeah, um, that's a good question so it's different for writers and producers. Producers will usually get an upfront fee just for making the track for the use of the track. Um, sometimes. Get that up front fee and the song never comes out that's happened to me before right or they pay for the track and then it just doesn't make it um but so sometimes even getting that check doesn't always mean that you know it's a go in this particular instance. Um, you know the publishing company has other producers and other writers and other artists. So it's their job to kind of team you up, you know and I mean to make amazing songs to pitch to amazing artists. At this particular moment I got the upfront fee. And then um and then I was yeah just waiting for it to come out after the album comes out most times it takes about a year for you to get paid some royalties right? because the record labels are like a giant bank. They offer out this loan to the artist to record the album you know to bring in wherever producers musicians. Whatever and then that's the album budget when the money comes in from that album selling they pay back the budget and then they start paying out so it takes about a year for that. Process that's also why sidebar you know, even the Nft thing that I'm really big on right now I'm crypto and stuff. It's like getting paid instantly once your work sells. It's like you know is incredible and then they also have splits where it doesn't go to a third party.Money Just automatically goes. However, you agree to it. So yeah, it's like um, it took a while for that money to come in. But it's something that you continue to get the more that it's played. Every time it's played on a tv show or in an elevator or wherever that it's being licensed. You get paid. So if it's ah, a really big single obviously gets paid for the radio spins as well. And so there's just many ways for you to make it. But At the time that I got this placement Cds were still a big thing you know and streaming had all the way taken over. So I kind of arrived into the music business as it was changing drastically. So my price for. That upfront price that producers get um it was never as high as it was that first time for me which is kind of crazy right? It just kept getting lower and lower and lower and lower and so did the publishing checks. Yeah, so did the publishing.
Michelle:
That's thank you for explaining that because I always find how it actually the business side of things really interesting and I mean that sounds just like an incredible opportunity just being in that setting where. Okay, you produce this music work with this writer or work with this artist. How did you guess what are the elements that contribute to a fruitful collaboration like it is? You need a vibe of someone's personality or you know I kind of view it as a date like if you're going on a first date. Someone with a songwriter for example and I don't know were there certain things you would do to build chemistry if you will or how did you go about creating a healthy dynamic.
REO:
Yeah, when I moved to la a lot of times like before that I had I would just send stuff through email right? and then if someone writes to it. It wasn't necessarily about the vibe but working in person when I moved to la and I was having sessions every week with just new people. It's like that was a really big test in how you set the vibe. How do you guys start talking? Usually I'd spend the first thirty forty five minutes to an hour just talking just you know where are you from like what's your story. What are you working on? What have you done? You know what you are into right now. Is there anybody that you know, any music that you love that you know like I would just try to understand as much as I could about who's sitting in front of me and how to extract the best of their talent into my world right? Because. Forcing them to record to a song that they don't like or something they're not feeling then I would play a bunch of music and I would look at them and and if I see their foot tapping or I see their head bobbing or them come mumbling some lyrics like I know that this is ah a branch. You know that could have some fruit on it. Eventually. So. It's definitely something that fascinates me because I am very concerned, not concerned about work . I'm inspired by seeing how art affects people and like you know, even my own art that I do. Um, I pay attention to how it's received. You know what I mean and and if I post some things on my story I'll ah like my for instance, my my infinite objects piece that I post that I did the Nft and the and the screen that started as a Instagram story and I got so many responses from that story that I was like okay this is a thing you know and I think that comes from my days as a music producer like really having to watch especially when you're an art in the room with an artist like a big artist. There's many times before where I'm in the room.
REO:
And they're just like all right I Heard a lot about you like let's hear some you know, let's hear some music and it's just like okay this is what I think they're gonna like you know what? I mean but maybe I'm biased. Maybe I'm playing them something they've already done before and that's why I think they'll like it. Maybe I'm playing them something that's too weird. And so just watching their reaction kind of dictates like and maybe what they say to me like yeah I don't really like that and it's like okay now I got now I can't play this this or this but I need to go play this. You know what? I mean it's like having to really be on point in the moment and really listen to what people are.
Michelle:
Yeah I mean it takes an incredible amount of interpersonal skills and relationship skills to do what you do successfully? You know it's not just being an amazing producer in a room making music on your own. It's how you can work with other people. Thank you for explaining that. Um that made me think of something . When I met you for the first time you were living in New York I candidly said at the time I just knew you as a visual artist I didn't even know about your music background. Um, and at the time I was outreaching to you for work for social media specifically for 1 of my clients. You know, testing this or putting something on Instagram stories and seeing your followers' reactions to it. How has social media changed? Your work in and of itself and also how you work.
REO:
Yeah I think it's just an amazing temperature. Gauge. You know you can kind of see how people are feeling about what you're doing if you have something that you're, you know, curious about. like I could love it. You know and then I post it and then it doesn't get a response. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm not going to continue to work like that or something like that you know but I think that in my time with social media, especially a few years ago it was like I was posting little things. Little snacks you know and then when I would get a lot of attention on one of those snacks I'd know that maybe that means I could make a bigger longer more In-d Depth piece with that content or that I P or that you know and so. There were certain things that I would do. The response was obviously different and so I was like okay I need to continue with this style in a few different ways and I think that you know some people may say oh you Know. You got to listen to yourself and not to what the people want. But I think that inherently you know I want I'm a people pleaser as Well. You know like in just relationships and things I want everybody to be happy and like Okay, what do you need? You know, kind of you know and I think that.Caring about what other people are feeling from you is an important skill like we were talking about earlier. It's very similar to being in the studio. You know what I mean and and paying attention to what the artist likes I mean I started making things because I like to make it but you know. Once It's online and then people start reacting to it. It's like I know that okay this is probably gonna lead to something bigger and so yeah, that's happened to me a few times where I've I've started with a style and I didn't know whether it was going to be just like a one off or it was gonna be something I was going to to continue with and then I got. Positive reinforcement and feedback from social media and so I just kept going up with it and then that led to brands hitting me up asking me for that style and me getting hired and stuff because it became popular you know and just even the culture you know.
Consciousness like what's moving around in people's heads like what they want to see, what brands want to put up on billboards or hire you and in the same Thomas it was a job. You know what? I mean like I got to take it seriously and kind of see where the needle moves you know.
Michelle:
Yeah, yeah, I remember with certain creators I would work with they would ask you know how do I get recognized by other brands like you know your clients and my answer was always put whatever you're working on on Instagram. Might be a different platform now. I still very much like Instagram as my hero platform. But it's just getting it out there. I rarely go to a creator's portfolio site or any other website if I'm looking to work with someone I'm going to socialize with. Granted I was. Building my clients social media channels. So it's definitely biased, but it's just a quick snackable way to just see what they're up to and if I liked something or responded to something I was like hey how can we work with you to market this but like. Definitely want your spin and your creative take on it. Um, so I guess the Nft thing I know a bit about space. Um, just because I'm interested in it, it definitely wasn't tuned in years ago like some people were. For those listening who don't know what an Nft is, can you describe it in your own words?
REO:
Yeah I just try to simplify it to like proof of ownership very similar to a deed or a title for a car for so long. Physical items. You know the scarcity of a physical item. There's only so many Picassos there's only so many pairs of jordans you know there's only so many pair things of this that of course that's what adds value to it. Um, but with digital art. When everyone can see it and everyone can enjoy it does that make it less valuable and that has been something that I've been dealing with for a while because I had an art show a few years ago where it was all digital and I sold nothing there but it wasn't the fault of anybody. But just the climate because there weren't really any price tags on anything that was there. So of course I didn't sell anything but back then it's like I sell a Tv with my heart on it. It's not like someone's walking out with a sculpture or a canvas and they own that. I Think um, Nfts have become a way to prove ownership of a digital item. Yeah, everybody can right click and save this image off the internet but that doesn't mean that you own it and I Think. Kind of um people understand that like children kids understand this right? It's like they play fortnite. They play these games online and they use the money that they have in the game to buy something digitally that goes on their character. Or a dance move or something like that. But they're not in the real world walking around with that thing but it still means so much to them because they're you know they're social. They're hanging out with their friends in these places and that sort of you know if you walked in a fortnight and you just had the default character people are going to laugh at you. You know it means it's like going to school and the first day will close you wo last year like it's like what like you know and that because that's the modern. You know that's where kids hang out now and so I think it's harder to explain it to people that are older you know because it's just like what do you mean that everybody can have that. Like everybody can have it but not everybody owns it.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, the way I think about it is also in terms of the rights you have as the creator and the ownership as you were saying. For example, if you know someone creates a meme and it goes viral on Twitter. Creator of that meme is not getting any of the reward from the virality of it whereas if you create an Nft as a creator and you know it picks up momentum then you get that. Benefit of revenue as it's bought and sold between different users is that a correct way of thinking about it. Yeah.
REO:
Um, yeah for sure like like I told you earlier music has royalties built in right? So that every time it's played every time. It's you know, formed I would get a percentage of that. But in the in the art. World. It's like if I sell a painting now and I get $5000 from it and then let's just say I become the biggest the next boskat and in 20 years that painting I sold for 5000 cells for 50000000 me and my family and my state see none of that money. The only money I was getting is their first initial sale but within ft's to have built in royalties where you will receive if whatever you claim the the default is like 10% in perpetuity. So for the rest of your life. You will always get a percentage of every time that sells and I think that's super important for artists because you know for the longest time. That's the story. You know so that the artist gets popular postmortem or like you know and. They get paid after the fact so many other people are making money off their art except for them. So I think it solved a problem that not a lot of people knew existed for years and years and years you know.
Michelle:
Yeah, and I think they're from what I've seen . When I first learned about nfts I think I learned about it from a perspective that candidly felt like gambling to me because I knew people who would. Buy an Nft because you know maybe they were plugged in and they knew it would go up and they would want to then you know turn around and sell it for a profit and I think at first it felt like a game almost and like gambling. And then when I looked into it more and I knew I was educating myself on it I thought wow what an incredible opportunity to support artists directly with no middlemen. Well I mean I guess it depends but you know get to support. Artists that I admire and art that I like and you know people say what is it? You can take a screen grab of it. You know if it's just a static and of t. But it's a way to support artists in a way that didn't exist before and that's where I find the real beauty in it. Um, I guess you know these different marketplaces like open c and whatnot as an artist. Obviously it's incredible because you know financially you are being paid and rewarded for your work. But how do you balance that with I guess how do you balance the financial drive that those marketplaces have established with just creating art for art and how do you think about that.
REO:
Um, yeah, yeah I think um I've seen and been a victim of those same kinds of things too, getting in thinking you're gonna make some money buying this thing. Um I. I Know that there are things that are trendy that have hype behind them and things but there are artists that are out here and have crazy resumes that have been doing things for a long time that this is you know the next wave of you know. Artists that will be in those museums in the Future. You know what? I mean that is happening right now and um, and of course anytime there's money involved markets gambling its it is gambling crypto Stock Markets. You put your money In. You're hoping to double it. Sometimes you lose it all. Just like being at a blackjack table, right? And um, you know it is a gamble but I think that when you bet on an artist that you believe in that you love the art. You know what? I mean even if they aren't the biggest selling artists right now. The fact that you see it. The fact that you support them. You know you're seeing artists that make $70000000 off a sale but a lot of people aren't talking about the artists that are making an extra 3 grand a month you know where during a pandemic when things are crazy and you don't know where your next meal is coming from or what's happening or you know. Getting that extra three thousand a month is a game changer for them. You know like these are those stories that even like myself I'm one of them. You know like getting that extra money enabled has enabled me to say no to projects that you know I didn't necessarily want to do. Or that you know I can instead of doing that I can focus on this idea I have to make more art that's coming for me with less cooks in the kitchen with less people telling me hey change this fix that do that until by the time it comes out. It's not my idea anymore. You know what? I mean it's something that I did for them.And you know I think you definitely have to get to that point. I think someone like me who's been doing this for a long time kind of comes into the world and is like wow this new world has opened up for me. Because I told you ever since the beginning I was trying to figure out how to not have a boss you know and eventually I ended up working for brands or agencies and it's the closest thing to not having a boss right? I don't work for them. I'm a freelancer but I'm still. Getting paid to help someone else's dreams come true and that's okay, too. But I think that some people um I make this joke are the beyonce of their lives right? It's like they like some people who are there to help. Beyonce's dreams come true. And they're amazing and we applaud them and we love them. You know me because we love beyonce. But I think me being around her and seeing what it takes and seeing those different things I thought to myself like yeah I'm I'm the beyonce of my life like I need to figure out how to take all this stuff that I'm learning being. You know around these big artists like Kanye Jay -z Beyonce Travis Scott and just being like okay I'm taking notes on how to treat people and how to get things over the finish line. How to motivate people and how to communicate my ideas to other people. I do need help. You know what? I mean there's all those things that that come with it. So at the end of the day. Um your intentions speak volumes. You know in a world where there's a ton of people trying to make money if you come in and want to support real artists and you believe in and you. Buy the art that you like not just the art. That's gonna sell for a bunch of money later. You know I mean nothing is Promised. We don't know what's gonna Happen. So I Just I think that personally for me I'm gonna keep pushing whether there's a bunch of money in this or not like I'm an artist I'm gonna make this for free. Or for millions you know and I mean either way it's going to get created. You know.
Michelle:
Um, yeah, well please do. I mean 1 of the reasons I love your work so much is because it's unlike anything I've seen. I think about it a little bit about how I view travel. Granite a lot of places in the world. The world is getting smaller and smaller. But I just before covid went to India for a few weeks and I have never been anywhere where I felt I guess it was just it was all new. Every way of life. There was something new and something about it that was so invigorating and exciting. I traveled a lot in my life because my family is from all over the place. So I guess you know going to new places didn't. Ever feel that novel just because I've been doing it since I was little but India was like such an incredible experience. My favorite place and I think about art in the same way too. If I can look at art and it is something I've never seen before it just kind of opens up your perspective.And it's even if you don't like it necessarily like even if you don't want it on a wall in your home. It's just changing. It's influencing your perspective and it's making you think about something new and I just think that's the coolest thing ever. So.
REO:
Thank you so much.
Michelle:
Um I saw online? Yeah no, it's true. Um, so on 1 of your online bios. It states that you are a dynamic futurist poised to change the way the world views digital art. So I wanted to know how you want the world. To view digital art.
REO:
I Want the world to view digital art as art. 1 of the you know biggest frustrations I see from artists like myself is that you know people haven't considered it art for a long time. Video art. You know, even Vr or or anything that is in that digital world is considered a kind of novelty or like a fun thing or a toy and you know even for me like before this everything I made was considered content. You know this idea of like you're making this thing that's not art. It's just content and it always felt heartless in that way, you know when you know I'm sitting here putting as much time and energy and my 10000 hours in and all that stuff into learning this. Just like someone learning to paint just like someone learning to sculpt just like someone you know learning how to do hair or makeup or architecture or anything like it's all art. You know what I mean and um. Heard this one time in a clubhouse where you don't call modern Photographers Digital Photographers right? like they're just photographers if every picture that you take on your phone is a digital photo. You know it's like no, right? It's it's.
Michelle:
Great point.
REO:
That's just a word that describes where the thing lives you know what I mean and um I've seen there's been so many times where like I would go to art basel years for years ago and I would be in there and I was just like this is cool but I see more impressive stuff on my phone. You know, just scrolling through my Instagram feed or my Twitter feed and I'm just like seeing artists from all around the world that are just like making things that are just mind blowing to me and maybe they didn't go to the right school or they didn't meet this right curator or they didn't have you know the money to do this thing and get here. And I think the internet has closed that gap and made it so that you know the best. I just want the best art to rise to the top. You know what? I mean whether it's digital or physical. It doesn't matter how it's made, I don't when you're on when you listen to the radio. You're not thinking I wonder what they use to make this song. Like you know what? I mean like you're past that process when you go to a restaurant and they put a plate in front of you. You don't know how this thing was made, you don't know what kind of pans they use, what kind of grill or anything and you just either enjoy it or you don't. And I think kind of removing that label for me is important and even moving some of my most recent work is going to the mindfulness to the meditative to you know, kind of even removing this stigma that when you look at your phone. All it does is take from you right? It's like oh we need to set a limit on how much we look through our phone and stuff. It's like no, the phone is not the issue. It's human beings right? It's just like a knife. Can you be used to cut someone free or to hurt someone. It's in the hand of.
REO:
Owner you know what I mean and and I want to be able to create something that that you do look at your phone and it gives you more you know, um, and so yeah, just kind of in that gray area and removing some of those weird preconceived ideas of just that. You know the internet is toxic or that digital like you know digital is not the way forward. You know.
Michelle:
Do you think we'll get there?
REO:
I hope so. I think we are on a steep slope into augmented reality. You know the 3 biggest companies in the world Apple you know meta and Google are all spending.More money than they ever have on trying to be the first one you know to create these glasses that will you know, bring the digital world in our current world into one and you know again, it's that same. Sentiment that is in the hands of the right person. You know this technology can be used to free people to make people feel more accepted, to make people feel more understood or to connect with people from across the world that feel the same way as they do or it can be used as a weapon to control. To limit it you know, kind of hinder people's growth or connection right? And that's the part I don't know about but I do know that there are a bunch of artists like me that are coming forward. You know, with really strong integrity you know and with mindfulness and intention to do good and to um, bring more beauty into the world. You know.
Michelle:
Yeah, and it's all happening at such an interesting time I mean I can only imagine the kind of community. You're probably I don't want to assume but probably feeling with the world and. Creator economy at a time where most of us have spent the last two years at home. So. It's such a beautiful dichotomy of situations and maybe it's only happening because we were all at home. Um, it's just.
REO:
I agree I think that the other part is just like you said the community like I've I've never been so close to so many artists I've never been felt so supported. You know at first when I was selling some mfts like some artists were buying them and I kind of.
Michelle:
Cool way to think about it.
REO:
Caught myself being like no no like don't spend your money like you're an artist like save your money like you know I know how hard it is to get money. But then I'm realizing too that I'm collecting other artists' work because it connects to me because I understand how hard that was to make or how beautiful that is or I connect with that in such a way and. And artists supporting artists is this thing that is super amazing and like kind of a new thing that I didn't expect and how much we lift each other up and promote each other if if. Um, in so many chats where if somebody has a drop coming up. We all retweet it. We all rush to you know, share it and and give praise and give flowers you know and I think that even if this thing were to end tomorrow I don't think the community would stop I don't. Think what we've built you know these last two years just sitting in clubhouse and you know collectively sharing our experience through this wildass time that we live in you know we've we've formed some amazing bonds kind of in those trenches.I think are going to last way Beyond you know the the money or the popularity.
Michelle:
Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, so Rio I have 5 final questions that I'm asking everyone. We may have already touched on some of the things before but I'm going to ask them nonetheless. Um question number 1 what drives you to create. Why do you do what you do?
REO:
Because the greatest luxury is time and I want to see all that this body can do in the time that I have.
Michelle:
That is beautiful. Um, okay, this one fills in the blank feeling inspired feels like.
REO:
Love you know feeling um like anything is possible like feeling powerful feeling um man like you can do anything.
Michelle:
Where do you go physically or mentally to get your creative juices flowing? How do you overcome creative blocks?
REO:
Um I think ingesting yeah ingesting as much beauty as I can right like watching a really amazing movie.
Michelle:
Or digitally I need to add in digitally to that question.
REO:
Going on a hike and seeing nature watching somebody at the peak of their talent. You know, I try to search for as much of that, even something as little as really well-designed clothes like for me. You know what? I mean does it for me, but I just love seeing human beings kind of blur the line between you know, being human and being something else right? like just doing something incredible like that really always kisses me.
Michelle:
If you could tell your younger self 1 thing or 1 piece of advice. What would you say?
REO:
That you're going to learn how to turn everything that's happening into fuel and inspiration to do amazing things. It's not for nothing.
Michelle:
And then finally what are you looking forward to today? Anything coming up. That's keeping you motivated and feeling inspired.
REO:
Yeah, my birthday's coming up. I'm about to release February Tenth. Thank you. Yeah, birthdays are always a good time to reflect on the year and just what you've been through and. But you want to do and where you want to be and that sort of balance of being grateful for where you are but also planning for more and yeah I got a couple drops coming up I got one with time magazine. Coming up early December I have a nifty gateway drop at the end of March which should be pretty cool and and then along the lines just continuing to put out my own art and connect with people and we'll see what the rest of the year has planned for me.
Michelle:
Yeah I feel you at the birthday party. Mine is February sixth and I'm not, yeah , so not far off but I'm not one for New Year's resolutions necessarily but I feel like my birthday is my reset time. Um, yeah.
REO:
Oh amazing. I agree.
Michelle:
Reo, where can people go to follow you and see your art and see your work.
REO:
Yeah, so both of my social medias are @thisreo and they have a bunch of the stuff that I'm doing you can also check the link in either of my bios and they'll. Direct you to all the kinds of things that I'm up to my infinite objects piece that I just released my stuff on super rare foundation open c there's also a playlist of all the music that I've made that's on Spotify. So yeah.
Michelle:
Thank you so much, it was so nice to talk to you.
REO:
Thank you so much Michelle. I appreciate you.
